Icom A210 Misunderstanding??

[pmccoy]

Probably not very good, to be sure, but I'm wondering if we could start working up a list of people who felt the advertising was misleading and are now very disappointed with having purchased one. Since many of us purchased through the ACS group buy, we can't return them to ACS (if I remember correctly) but maybe Tom Glaze at ACS can at least make our complaint formally with Icom. I'm not expecting Icom to take our radios back (although they should) or give us a partial refund (which they also should probably do), but at least it might, as George said above, force Icom to stop their misleading advertising, thus helping the next guy. Everything I have ever heard about Icom has been great up to this point (which is why I went against my better judgement and for the first time purchased something that hadn't been tested in the marketplace first). I can't imagine they'd want to tarnish that reputation over the A210. Maybe they'd take such a complaint seriously. Anyone want to add their name to such a list or have a better suggestion?

Yep. I'm on the unhappy list.

[RV8RIVETER]

Can add me to the list.

[newtech]

Originally Posted by panheadmark

After reading here about how this unit works you can count me as another unhappy customer. Mine's still in the box, what do you suppose the chances are of them taking it back and giving a refund? Probably not very good.

Mark Erickson
Minnetonka, MN.
RV9A fuselage

It is so much more fun to try to use a debate to determine how many teeth are in the mouth of the horse on the other side of the field than to actually go over there and count them.

OK, so who has actually flown behind an A-210 and verified that the dual freq monitoring works one way or the other? I see three pages of speculation and after about two pages of speculation a conclusion has been drawn.

I would like to know if Icom is using Digital Signal Processing (DSP) like they use in many of their other receivers. If it is actually a DSP receiver than a dual watch capability is simply implemented in software. Even radio control receivers are being engineered today with DSP so it isn't a very big stretch to assume that the new Icom probably is using it.

I am completely happy with my purchase. I will be able to load frequencies directly from my GPS and select between them with switches on my control stick. How cool is that? Your only other option for that is an SL-30 or 40.

Lets get some feedback from Paul Dye or anyone else that is flying. I will be hooking mine up in my panel sometime this week and will try to get some REAL DATA before I trash what I think is going to turn out to be a great little radio.

[tomwebster]

I didn't buy an A-210 yet, not because of
the scan feature, but the intercom feature.
If someone does an actual flight test, I would
like to also know how well the , (I hope voice
activated), intercom feature works.
Thanks,
Tom

[newtech]

Originally Posted by tomwebster

I didn't buy an A-210 yet, not because of
the scan feature, but the intercom feature.
If someone does an actual flight test, I would
like to also know how well the , (I hope voice
activated), intercom feature works.
Thanks,
Tom

I will also be checking this out next week. I laid out my panel today and will be cutting it tomorrow. No audio panel or intercom. Relying on the A-210 for that. I don't expect it to let me down.

Steve Eberhart
RV-7A, O-360-A1A, Catto 3 blade, GRT Sport/HC EFIS and EIS, Icom A-210

[Ironflight]

Originally Posted by newtech

Lets get some feedback from Paul Dye or anyone else that is flying. I will be hooking mine up in my panel sometime this week and will try to get some REAL DATA before I trash what I think is going to turn out to be a great little radio.

I'm still happy with mine, and I know that I said that I'd do a definitive examination of this feature, but I've been busy trying to get a Shuttle off the ground (and re-paneling a -6), so when I've been flying the past couple weeks it's been quick flights to relax....it's my #2 Comm, so I don't pay it much attention, but really like the screen and as I have said before, I have not been annoyed by it in any way.

I'm sorry I can't give you any more specifics than that - but I can tell you that in the same rack, with the same antenna as my A200 (a really fine radio!) used I get better range and a clearer reception - and that coupled with the new display makes me happy I switched - but that's just me.

Paul

[Michael Coates XCOM]

Hello there I have flown behind the Icom A210 as part of our evaluation of a newly released product about 2 1/2 months ago and can give you first hand comments.

The intercom works really well, you will be happy with it.

The display is fantastic in low light situations but in a low wing aircraft with a bubble canopy and the sun behind you is extremely difficult to read. In high-wing applications the display will be more than adequate and you should be happy 99.9% of the time.

The radio does not have dual watch feature like in the XCOM, if it receives a transmission on the secondary frequency that is where it will stay... it won't come back to the primary frequency unless the secondary frequency stops transmission.

The Icom draws quite a bit of power on standby so is only really suitable to fit into aircraft with a decent power supply, it cannot be used in say a glider or other aircraft running on batteries.

Overall I believe the majority of you will be happy with your purchase with the exception of the dual watch feature. The radio design and the way it is manufactured will make it very difficult to implement this feature in the current design.

Many thanks Michael

[gmcjetpilot]

Originally Posted by tomwebster

I didn't buy an A-210 yet, not because of
the scan feature, but the intercom feature.
If someone does an actual flight test, I would
like to also know how well the , (I hope voice
activated), intercom feature works.
Thanks, Tom

That would nice to find out how good the intercom is. The A210 specs/ad say VOX operated intercom. I'm sure its VOX, but the question is sound quality (volume) and squelch operations. Michael (above) gives it a thumbs up. Tom Velvick gives the GPS Freq to A210 transfer mixed reviews. Any other reports of Intercom or Freq transfer features?

I assure you the older A-200's intercom feature is really quite weak and marginal (useless and horrible), but to be fair they did not advertise it having VOX operations. Even if a button activated intercom suits you, the volume was very low. I was considering using it, but after I understood how it worked (radio or intercom but not both) and reading about sound quality from other customers, I installed a separate intercom. I'm still happy with the A200, especially since I got it new on sale for $600. I'd buy it again even at full price of $700. I noticed the sales brochure for the A200 does not play up the intercom and now says "Intercom function - With additional wiring aboard the aircraft...." I know they got lots of complaints about the A200 intecom.


I don't think people are bashing Icom or being unreasonable. We need to get the word out. The question is the A210 worth the extra $550 over the A200. Some say yes, some say no, especially after they know out how dualwatch really works. Clearly the A210 is not in the same league as the SL40 ($1575), but that is $325/$875 more than the A210/A200 respectively. It appears they decided to position their products price between the A200 and Garmin SL40.

Customer unhappiness is expected when features are much less than implied and expected. There is NO simultaneous listening. I felt this way about the intercom feature on the A200. I still love the Icom A200, glad to have it; I'd buy it again, but I add on a full meal deal intercom, which is really better (stereo). The truth should be out there. Bottom line their product description is lousy and misleading.

One negative thing about my Icom experience, which seems consistent, Icom's written communication's are ambiguous. An example is the A200 installation manual, which is ambiguous. Not to bash Icom, they make a good product at a fair price, no doubt, but Icom of America, is just distribution, basic customer support & sales. Icom's main technical brain, design, manufacturing and HQ's are in Japan. Sometimes Japanese companies have manuals written and illustrated in the USA, with english speaking employees. I suspect Icom writes all their literature in Japan. I would like to believe this misunderstanding was due to being lost in translation. They need to update their sales brochure.

If you have a NEW unit in the box untouched..............they should take it back. Heck even if you used it and don't want it they should take it back and refurbish it. I'm not a big fan of lawsuits but you can contact your state's Attorney General or the AG in the state the company is in. They send out some awesome threatening letters. I had a problem with aggressive misleading phone solicitation from outright crooks. It did not affect me, I smelled their scam, but I complain to possibly save some little old lady her pension. The State Attorney went after them and sent me a letter telling me what they did. I was impressed. I think if you ask them nice, explain to them why they're in the wrong, they'll cave if that is what you want. At minimum they should trade you for a A200 and rebate the difference. Icom is in Washington state. If you ever want to check a company out get on the state AG where that company. Many AG's have data bases you can check out complaints against companies.

[Greg Reese]

I started this thread with real operational experience of the A210. Its as I stated in the begining. Call it whatever you want. Its semantics to a salesman, not to a pilot. You CAN'T listen to Two freqs at once ! It has ONE receiver !! You can "monitor" two freqs at once but when one is receiving you can not hear the other. How else can I say it??? I called the company to confirm my dissapointment. They CONFIRMED its limitations !!

[Brantel]

Originally Posted by newtech

I am completely happy with my purchase. I will be able to load frequencies directly from my GPS and select between them with switches on my control stick. How cool is that? Your only other option for that is an SL-30 or 40..

From what I understand their version of this does not work anything like the SL30-40. Someone posted earlier about it. Not sure this has as much value as the way it is done on the SL30-40. If it works the way the poster mentioned, it would be easier to enter them by hand.