VansAirForceForums  
Home > VansAirForceForums

- POSTING RULES
- Donate yearly (please).
- Advertise in here!

- Today's Posts | Insert Pics


Go Back   VAF Forums > Main > RV General Discussion/News
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #11  
Old 12-01-2007, 07:22 PM
RV_7A RV_7A is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Round Rock, TX
Posts: 807
Default

This is pretty close to what you are looking for....

-Jeff

http://www.jeffsrv-7a.com/COWLING/06-08-06.htm
__________________
www.JeffsRV-7A.com
N808TX
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 12-02-2007, 12:23 PM
NBowers NBowers is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Leesburg, FL
Posts: 89
Default Mounting strip materials

Sorry for lying off for a few days to reply to the question of mounting strip material (I was doing my annual recurrent for DAL).

The 6061-T6 (.063) strip was what we originally used in the 1st RV4 Skybolt built. The reason this was used is simple: It was the material strip we had and we chose to be very conservative with .063. Since that project, we have had great success with .040 and .050 and recommend .050 for firewall and side mounting strips. The science of 6061 versus 2024 came after our original kits we developed in 1990. 6061 is OK; 2024 seems to be better and agrees with AC43.13 "Aircraft Inspection and Repair". Standard MS20257 Hinge in 5052-34 material is rated at 34/20 compared to Alclad 2024-T3 at 59/38 tension/Shear; T4 is 58/35. If we were to debate material based on strength values, all the above references have obvious advantages. The most important criteria I find in the fastener world (working on tons of Cessna cowlings, for instance), is work hardening or stress corrosion. This is where higher strength values may not necessarily be your best friend. 6061 is a good material, but in some cases, it will stress crack and in others, it won't. Skybolt manufactures formed fastener components with all the materials mentioned with various results. For a cowling application, I'll go with Gil Alexander's reply and state that 2024-T3 Alclad is the best choice for firewall and side mounting strip applications although I am not aware of problems with the other referenced materials or thicknesses (6061, 2024-T3 or T4, .040, .050, .061....Alclad, non-Alclad; we have used all of them successfully, including fiberglass and composites that we fabricated as doubler/mounting strips).

The current Skybolt Vans RV PowerPoint instructions state 2024-T4, however, I am adding a note to the instructions to also recommend 2024-T3 Alclad.

On another note, the trademark CLoc and name C-LOCK are used in passing as if they are the same. These fasteners are not the same. In fact, they do not even look the same. All of our current kits use the Skybolt CLoc 4000 Super Series studs that have a standard #2 Phillips aviation head. The "Super" means that we found ways to boost the head hardness significantly to prevent screwdriver galling without compromising corrosion resistance. (Camloc uses a 400 Series stainless to do this, but it is not shiny and will corrode). Add up all the differences Skybolt has engineered into our newest 2008 CLoc brand and you have a stainless fastener that will outlast, outshine, and out perform anything available from any other source by a significant margin. We want the CLoc fastener to look as good in 1000 hours as the day you installed them.

Thanks to all for their input...it allows us to see many points of view and to serve you better.

Ned Bowers
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 12-02-2007, 12:55 PM
Tedtheflyer Tedtheflyer is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Calimesa, California
Posts: 33
Default

Thanks Jeff for the help!
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 12-03-2007, 03:02 PM
NBowers NBowers is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Leesburg, FL
Posts: 89
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tedtheflyer View Post
Hi Ned,

Your e-mail post goes into detail about using .063 6061T-6 strips and .050 6061T-6 strips for a typical RV cowling install.

I just purchased one of your fastener kits for my 7A and the instructions supplied recommend .050 2024 T-4 strips. T-4 temper in 2024 is a pretty rare commodity. 2024 T-3 seems to be the norm at most supply houses. Is this an error?

Can you supply the real skinny on the recomended strip size. I have seen some old instructions from SkyBolt detailing an install on an RV-4 and I believe the recomendation is .063 2024T-3. Your competitor Mil Spec also recommends .063 2024T-3 strips.

I think the quality of your fasteners is great, but can you clear up the misleading information concerning mounting strip specs?

Thanks
Hi Ted:

The .063 6061 is what we used in our original Vans RV4, as it was the material we had on hand.

In one of our projects, I used .050 2024-T4 as it was available from our local source, however, for this application, 2024-T3 is a better substitute if availability is the driving issue. We will add a note to our instructions that states several alloys, Alclad and non-Alclad, including composite fabricated parts are acceptable alternatives for mounting strips. The strength factor is somewhat of a non-issue, as most aluminum alloys exceed that of the hinge it is replacing and exceeds the tensile strength of the fastener itself considering converting PSI load to straight load. I totally agree that the instructions need to be clear and concise, and I like you, hate reading computer manuals when they leave out one simple keystroke the author just assumed I'm supposed to know. I try to rely on pictures to tell a thousand words. But nothing beats many of the photos available on the Vans AirForce website, I believe are posted on this forum that should answer your question. If not, let me know and I'll send you a disk from my library. One neat thing about the kitplane industry, there are many ways to skin a cat and just when I thought I've seen the perfect answer, someone comes up with another clever version and we are free to adapt. Every time I get near to publishing a drawing, I see something I like better and revert back to a picture. The good news is, I have yet to see an installation that is not structurally sound.

Thanks Ted,

Ned Bowers, Skybolt
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 12-04-2007, 07:16 PM
szicree szicree is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: SoCal
Posts: 2,061
Default Where to buy 2024-t3 for this?

So it looks like I'll need about 3' by 3" of .050 2024-t3 for my upper firewall project, but Spruce will only sell me a 4' by 2'. Where do people get such small pieces?
__________________
Steve Zicree
Fullerton, Ca. w/beautiful 2.5 year old son
RV-4 99% built and sold
Rag and tube project well under way

paid =VAF= dues through June 2013
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 12-05-2007, 08:14 AM
Tedtheflyer Tedtheflyer is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Calimesa, California
Posts: 33
Default Source for Aluminum Strips...

Try Airparts Inc for aluminum. They will sell you a 1'X4' piece. Their prices are better than Spruce and they have been around for a long time.
http://www.airpartsinc.com/;)
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 12-05-2007, 10:43 AM
dpansier's Avatar
dpansier dpansier is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Green Bay, WI (GRB)
Posts: 479
Default Source for Aluminum Strips

Don't forget Van's, they will cut it to size.
__________________
Don Pansier
Green Bay, WI (GRB)
RV-7 N450DP
W9LYX

Antennas for Experimental Aircraft
www.deltapopaviation.com
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 12-05-2007, 11:30 AM
Tbone's Avatar
Tbone Tbone is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: South
Posts: 526
Default Piano hinges?

Will be starting my cowling shortly and I know this is about Cloc fasteners, but what is wrong with the standard piano hinges? Generally I don't look too far ahead into my -7 project so I research about 2 months ahead to keep from mental overload.
__________________
___________
Terry
RV7
XP IO360
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 12-05-2007, 02:12 PM
szicree szicree is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: SoCal
Posts: 2,061
Default

Here's my two cents: I had planned from the start to use hinges cuz they're clean, cheap and light. Now that I'm nearly done with the cowl, I've decided that the hinge across the top of the firewall has got to go. The idea of reaching through the oil door across the top of a hot dirty engine every time I need to look at something I can't live with. I don't want to ever have a reason not to open things up if I suspect a problem. The other hinges seem real good. This may be different for the other models that have bigger, floppier cowls.
__________________
Steve Zicree
Fullerton, Ca. w/beautiful 2.5 year old son
RV-4 99% built and sold
Rag and tube project well under way

paid =VAF= dues through June 2013
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:14 AM.


The VAFForums come to you courtesy Delta Romeo, LLC. By viewing and participating in them you agree to build your plane using standardized methods and practices and to fly it safely and in accordance with the laws governing the country you are located in.