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09-07-2007, 05:48 PM
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VAF Moderator / Line Boy
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Dayton, NV
Posts: 12,256
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by bryanflood
Whadda yall think?
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I think you're coming a little late to the discussion..
That incident is pretty much what started all of the current round of nose wheel types flipping - for more reading, do a search on "nose wheel", get yourself a favorite beverage and settle in for some long threads....
Paul
__________________
Paul F. Dye
Editor at Large - KITPLANES Magazine
RV-8 - N188PD - "Valkyrie"
RV-6 (By Marriage) - N164MS - "Mikey"
RV-3B - N13PL - "Tsamsiyu"
A&P, EAA Tech Counselor/Flight Advisor
Dayton Valley Airpark (A34)
http://Ironflight.com
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11-18-2007, 06:13 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Appleton Wi.
Posts: 87
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I'm not trying to start an argument but... Im building my tail and plan to do the 7a but this has got me concerned. At first this issue seemed to me to be pilot error. Peter pilot just wanted to let the nose drop to soon, found a rut and over she went. However giving the NTSB report an open minded look, I don't think that?s always the case. They stated 1-2k on the nose and over she goes and the gear actually helps spring her on her back!!! Some of the nose collapse reports happened at very slow speeds. Some so slow there?s no way you could keep the nose in the air. Also some on "washboard concrete". Which makes me think back and talking about the nose springing fore and aft during taxi and how ?That?s the way it is?. All gear moves. Even on our big expensive planes you can wiggle the mains a little when their on jacks. But there are limits. This to me seems like ... not design error but rather not enough room for error built into the design. It seems things have to be just like they where in the lab or else. If I put $70,000.00 and a lot of me time into a plane I had better not have to worry about flipping over during a slow taxi.  Like I said I'm not trying to argue but this is a significant investment and I'm just wanting to know if you guys are feeling my concern or am I missing something and acting like a worried mother. 
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Mark Hegy
RV-8....slow build
Appleton WI.
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11-18-2007, 06:54 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Shellmans Bluff, GA
Posts: 517
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jury still out
Mark: I fly a 9A mostly on paved runways, although I have landed at a couple of really rough fields. One before I knew better and one recently on a field that had not been maintained since the last time I was there. I made a hot landing and kept the nose off for as long as possible. When it came down, I thought to myself, you just broke your airplane. I kept waiting for the nose to dig in. Kept back pressure, tried to stay off the brakes and it rolled to a stop. Upright. I taxied to the parking area while holding my breath bouncing along in the tall grass holding the stick back hoping I wasn't pulling so hard it would bend. When I took off I promised myself that I would not come back there.
With that said, we have all read of similar situations that ended up, downside up or bent gear legs. I'm not a better pilot than those that broke or went over. There could be many reasons, maybe, I luckily didn't hit the worst spots on the poorly maintained field, nosewheel tire pressure was good, light engine prop combo, sufficient clearance between fairings and tire, breakout pressure correct on nosewheel fork, and other stuff that I can't think of, or a combination of all these things.
Maybe there are some nosegear legs that have weaknesses that haven't been ID'd yet.
I also forgot to mention that I have the old style nosegear fork with less clearance. I plan to do the SB fix to get the extra inch of clearance at my next annual in March.
While there have been several of these accidents that looked like everything was done right, I'm not sure if they were using the new style fork. That would be interesting to know. I don't know how to reassure you, other than for every incident/accident there are a few hundred A models with hundreds of hours flying, landing and taxiing right side up.
I for one love the A models for the ease of landing and actually like the look better also.
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RV9A N489JE - Flying
Eagle Neck Airpark
Shellmans Bluff, Georgia
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11-18-2007, 11:17 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Southeast
Posts: 569
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When I was completing my -7A in early the spring of 2005, I was looking for guidance on tire inflation recommendations. At the time this document addressing "Nosewheel shimmy" was available on Van's website:
It seems that Van's might have brought some of this nose gear angst on themselves by advocating nose wheel tire pressures as low as 20 psi. There could be as much as a 1" difference in height above the surface between the 20 psi tire pressure that I first flew with and the 35 psi that I use now. After 270 hrs. on the plane, I'm comfortable with the existing setup as long as I keep the nose tire pressure up where it belongs.
The plane survived the "death taxi" at Oshkosh this past year and apparently every other plane did, too, because no one nosed over there. That was a good enough test for me!!
Mike
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11-18-2007, 11:44 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Victoria, Canada
Posts: 2,251
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I've been thinking (dangerous, I know). I recently determined that I was dragging my brakes a lot. The fix was to build up the rudder pedals so that I don't ride the brakes during taxi, takoff, or landing.
It's a major improvement. Before, I noticed that unless I slide my feet onto the side of the rudder pedals, the nosegear would come down on landing, and now it's easy to keep it off for the entire rollout. Also, my takeoff distance has improved. I also wore out a set of brake pads by 150 hrs.
Could it be that one of the contributing factors is dragging brakes causing pitching moments? This would effect all phases of taxi/takeoff/landing and might contribute to nose-overs. This would have more of an effect at low speeds when the elevator is not effective.
It might explain why some folks never have a problem in rough field conditions, while others fold the gear during taxi. When maneuvering on a soft field, inadvertant brake actuation could explain why the nose gear is digging in.
Personally, I think its a contributing factor. I've fixed the problem and I keep 35 psi in the nose wheel and I built a skid plate. Next step is the new fork/gear leg.
V
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V e r n. ====
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RV-9A complete
Harmon Rocket complete
S-21 wings complete
Victoria, BC (Summer)
Chandler, Az (Winter)
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11-19-2007, 06:16 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 72
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50 hrs on my 9A
I just passed 50 hrs on my 9A. I live on a grass strip. I use lots of trim on landing and always keep the nose light. So far no problems!
Joe Ramotowski
N358JR
RV9A Slow build
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11-19-2007, 06:32 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Maple Grove, MN
Posts: 2,333
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alcladrv
SNIP
The plane survived the "death taxi" at Oshkosh this past year and apparently every other plane did, too, because no one nosed over there. That was a good enough test for me!!
Mike
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Unfortunately, I believe a 9A went over, I don't know the situation, but recall hearing about it while I was there.
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Alex Peterson
RV6A N66AP 1700+ hours
KADC, Wadena, MN
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11-19-2007, 09:24 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Oakland, CA
Posts: 349
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vlittle
... The fix was to build up the rudder pedals so that I don't ride the brakes during taxi, takoff, or landing.
It's a major improvement. Before, I noticed that unless I slide my feet onto the side of the rudder pedals, the nosegear would come down on landing, and now it's easy to keep it off for the entire rollout.
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I've been trying to be very aware of not depressing the brakes unless I need to, but perhaps because of the design of the pedal, I inadvertently get brake when I am depressing the rudder.
Can you explain how you "built up" the rudder pedals? Thanks.
__________________
Ed Neffinger
KCCR
RV7a
RV7
RV8
ATP, CFIA, II, ME, G
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11-19-2007, 09:52 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Victoria, Canada
Posts: 2,251
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edneff
I've been trying to be very aware of not depressing the brakes unless I need to, but perhaps because of the design of the pedal, I inadvertently get brake when I am depressing the rudder.
Can you explain how you "built up" the rudder pedals? Thanks.
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Check this thread: http://www.vansairforce.com/communit...=rudder+pedals
Vern
__________________
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V e r n. ====
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RV-9A complete
Harmon Rocket complete
S-21 wings complete
Victoria, BC (Summer)
Chandler, Az (Winter)
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11-19-2007, 10:55 AM
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Senior Curmudgeon
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Dayton Airpark, NV A34
Posts: 15,419
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PIREPs???
So, is there anybody out there using these??
http://www.cleavelandtool.com/fileca...l_Brochure.pdf
If so, how do you like them???
Are they worth the $$$$??
Thanks.
__________________
Mike Starkey
VAF 909
Rv-10, N210LM.
Flying as of 12/4/2010
Phase 1 done, 2/4/2011 
Sold after 240+ wonderful hours of flight.
"Flying the airplane is more important than radioing your plight to a person on the ground incapable of understanding or doing anything about it."
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