Glass cockpit without backup

[jcoloccia]

Originally Posted by ao.frog

One of the copilots I flew with told me how he saved his bacon one day, making up his own backup instruments:

He was flying IFR, IMC at night when all of a sudden ALL of the electric instruments quit and the whole cockpit went completely dark. The engine kept on going but he had a total elec failure.

NOT fun at all...

This guy was a quick thinker and quickly he grabbed his cokebottle and a flashlight.
He placed the cokebottle on top of the glareshield and lit it up with his flashlight. Then he'd made himself a artificial horizon.

He then kept and eye on the mag compass and made sure he was not turning.

Then he added power and started a slow straight ahead climb until he became VFR on top.

Then he proceeded on top until he found a hole ahead (he remembered from his wx-briefing where to find the best wx)

Then he dropped down in the hole and landed safely at the nearest airport, keeping a VERY good lookout ofcourse...

That's what I'd call a smart guy!


Regards Alf Olav Frog / Norway

I haven't posted in a while but in the interest of safety I must say....THIS IS TOTAL BS. A coke bottle, or any other kind of "AI" of this type is completely unusable for IFR (or any other) kind of flight. The liquid will be perfectly LEVEL if you're in coordinated flight. If you're uncoordinated, it will still tell you NOTHING about you're actual flight attitude. You get the IDENTICAL information from the ball in your turn coordinator.

Bottom line: Given the light weight and relative cheapness of some instrumentation these days, if there is a particular instrument you think will KILL YOU if it fails, it's a bit nutty to fly without a backup.....just my opinion.

Also just my opinion: If you're in VFR conditions, and you seriously think you're in mortal danger flying with absolutely no instrumentation, backup instruments is NOT the solution.

My totally non-politically correct, mostly worthless, yet mildly entertaining, statement of the month....

[Randy Walls]

Originally Posted by RV10POLAND

I'm really surprised that so many RV builders go glass without any backup instrumentation What are they going to do if electricity fails? All this stuff is great but as you know there are some incidents of misstated, inaccurate readings of altitiude, airspeed or unsafe attitude information. Even while flying under VMC you don't have airspeed and altitiude readings. I don't want to criticize nobody but we all are here to help each other. I'm sure that adding three analog instruments is not a big deal and can save your life.

Regards

Maciek

The airplane I make my living in has no mechanical gages except for the standby compass. It also has four generators, two batteries, and more busses than I can remember. All electric airplanes are safe if you build in enough redundancy. However I feel strongly that you should have three sources of attitude info in the clouds. Nothing is more disorienting than an AHRS that is in a slow drift. More than one airliner has hit the ground because of this. I would like to have two EFIS screens and a turn coordinator/AP myself. Day VMC you don't need much, night IMC is a different world.

[Phyrcooler]

Originally Posted by Pilottonny

Actually I find it strange that nobody considers their cell-phone (I carry it with me all the time) as a back-up for radio transmission. I bet ?911? will connect you with the tower of your choice in a minute, when you tell them you have no other means of communication, to get your plane down on the ground!

Not something I would advise (based on my local experience and knowledge - YMMV). While they have direct pass-through's to their allied agencies... Control towers aren't one of those connections. You'd probably end up waiting a LONG time while they try to figure out who to call and what the number was. (All the while cell-hopping and risking dropped calls) Then, you'd more then likely be in a 3-way conversation with the non-aviator dispatcher playing the middle man in that telephone conversation. If anyone knows differently... please correct me.
DJ

[the_other_dougreeves]

Originally Posted by gmcjetpilot

Yep think so.

Personally I bring my cat "fluffy" with me for a back up instrument IFR.

Yes, and they always land on their feet

TODR

[kentb]

Originally Posted by the_other_dougreeves

Originally Posted by gmcjetpilot
Yep think so.

Personally I bring my cat "fluffy" with me for a back up instrument IFR.
Yes, and they always land on their feet

TODR

Now I thought that you were supposed to through the cat out the window and then follow it down.

Kent

[Captain_John]

Kent, the cat stays in the cabin.

The GOOSE is thrown from the cockpit and followed through the klag!

CJ

[paul330]

I'm some considerable time from putting the instruments in my -10 but have a couple of thoughts:

- in the modern VANS aircraft, with all their space and payload capability, there is no excuse not to have some sort of back-up even for VFR. IFR, of course, is essential both for power and instrumentation.

- back-up can be electric, especially if you have dual power sources and/or back-up internal batteries. I fly the big Airbusses for a living and the latest versions are all-electric - no manual back-up for instruments or flight controls.

- loss of ASI due to pitot blockage should be no big deal. Produce a power/attitude table for various configurations and airspeeds. Static is another matter (for IFR, at least). Alternate cockpit source with a correction table seems sensible. GPS altitude can also get you down although will bear little relationship to pressure altitude.

- My provisional plan is to run twin Dynon 180s, both hooked up to pitot/static. (Not that much more expensive than a 100 + 120). Run one as EFIS and one as EMS then in the event that one fails, you can run the other in dual mode. For power, dual essential feeds and back-up internal battery. I'll probably also fit a 2 1/4 TruTrak ADI and a Stratomaster combined ASI/ALT - all essential data in 2 x 2 1/4 instruments. That way with a failure en-route, you are not grounded at your next stop as you still have a back-up. Now that's a LOT of redundancy for what on the face of it is simply an EFIS, EMS and 2 back-up instruments - and a nice clean panel.

[PCHunt]

Sent you a PM.

[nucleus]

Airpeed indicator should not be electric. If you lose engine power, you want to be able to shut off the electric and still have airspeed indication for your landing.

[dynonsupport]

He's going to have dual, redundant EFIS units. The Dynon EFIS units have backup batteries so you can shut off your master power to the whole plane and still have the EFIS (and thus the ASI). So he'll have three ASI's in the plane, two of which don't use master power at all, or even three if he wires the Stratomaster with a backup. I think those guys will run on a 9V battery if I remember right.

That's pretty much a power-independent ASI (and attitude, and mag heading, and altimeter, and VSI, and...)

I do like the idea of the goose and/or the cat. I think we may need to look into stuffing one into our products for that second level of redundancy. We need to figure out where to put the slot so you can feed them though. I think the cat might be cleaner in that regard.