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  #21  
Old 09-08-2007, 09:31 PM
MrNomad's Avatar
MrNomad MrNomad is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 823
Default Concerning McCain, I live in AZ and would gladly help recall him.

By now it should be apparent to anyone older than 6 that representative government is a figment of people's imagination. You can write all the senators you want but until you lay down some serious green you're gonna get squat from government.

My great uncle, Al Capone, is giggling in his grave cause we now have the best guv money can buy.

Concerning McCain, I live in AZ and would gladly help recall him. Whatever respect he earned from his duty in Vietnam has since been squandered. Between user fees and open borders (another wacky idea he backed), we're screwed as a nation.

I'm glad I'm old. Less time to watch our great country get flushed down the toilet by thieves (aka congress).

My bird runs on autogas.
Barry
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  #22  
Old 09-08-2007, 10:19 PM
asav8tor asav8tor is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Seattle, wa
Posts: 679
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I know I will get flamed for this but here goes......

The cost to run the enroute IFR airspace does not depend on how many seats are on a blip. A blip is a blip. There are those who claim a complete overhaul of ATC aircraft handling is needed. It will cost a big pile of money. If user fees are charged for use of the system it gets paid for by the users. If fuel taxes are raised like AOPA and EAA have led you to believe is a better deal then you will pay anytime you buy 100LL. If users switch in mass to MOGAS a police force will be created to collect taxes on MOGAS for acft use. It is a big mistake to underestimate the taxman.

The RV community would have been least impacted with no GAS tax increase and user fees for IFR airspace. Yes some of us fly IFR but not every flight. More of us burn 100LL.

NBAA, AOPA, and yes even our beloved EAA are in bed with big money on this one. Why?

Technology Disruption.

Whether or not it happens, some at the FAA, Airlines, VLJ promoters, NBAA, AOPA, etc think the VLJs will be so successful they will create gridlock in the sky. (interesting aside the GAO just conducted a study and thinks the VLJ impact will be minimal; who listens to the GAO?)

Maybe it will maybe it won't. The significant point is the above heavy hitters think it will. They are acting on it and they have made you believe you have a dog in the fight.

FAA - knows current enroute system cannot be scaled to handle 2-3X blips and want NextGen and want it funded.

Contractors to build NextGen see a cash cow in the making.

Airlines - know the commercial air service experience is so bad no high margin pax will fly them if a business case can be made for VLJ travel (ala Day Jet) So if NextGen is required to accomodate all the blips, all the blips should pay. Folks we are talking about FL350 not RVs cruising VFR at 8,500.

If you are still ticked off about this all I can say is they succeded. They made you think it was about you when it never was. As a result it looks like you took the bait and will get stuck with part of the bill. Congrats.

Last edited by asav8tor : 09-08-2007 at 10:38 PM.
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  #23  
Old 09-09-2007, 08:31 PM
the_other_dougreeves the_other_dougreeves is offline
 
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Location: Dallas, TX (ADS)
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Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by asav8tor
I know I will get flamed for this but here goes......

The cost to run the enroute IFR airspace does not depend on how many seats are on a blip. A blip is a blip. There are those who claim a complete overhaul of ATC aircraft handling is needed.
Well, I have no idea whether you're right about the cost of enroute IFR services for different types of aircraft being the same (I imagine that the few people that actually have the data aren't talking), but I am skeptical. However, enroute IFR services are not the only thing that the FAA provides. Consider the following:

* Airports
* Center
* Approach/Departure TRACONs
* Class B towers
* Class C and D towers
* Navaid maintenance and checking
* Approach development and monitoring
* FSS
* Aircraft certification
* Airline oversight
* ASOS / AWOS
* Lobbying (e.g., Blakely's travel expenses and salary to go make speeches promoting user fees)

My point is that collecting the majority of the FAA's revenue on a per-IFR-flight basis is as bogus as the current system (what if you burn Mogas?), but it does shift the burden from one use to the other. This whole fight has nothing to do with "fairness", but rather the airlines wanting to put their "competitors" - bizjets and VLJs - out of business by making them more expensive. The airlines don't even pay the taxes - they just collect them from the passengers!

As much as it makes my Libertarian side wince, the Feds do have to coordinate some government functions, and they can't recover the exact costs down the dollar. We don't try and do it for public roads, public services like police (local / state / FBI / DEA) and fire, IRS, etc, so why try it with the FAA? If we applied the "user fee" concept everywhere, the government would send you a bill any time you called the cops - no thanks.

TODR
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  #24  
Old 09-10-2007, 10:40 AM
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JonathanCook JonathanCook is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Celebration, FL
Posts: 131
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We have plenty of room in the sky for all the airplanes to fly. The bottleneck is runway space. At large airports more runways need to be built for simultaneous takeoffs and landings. As we know it is almost impossible to build additional runways because of all the political red tape.
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  #25  
Old 09-10-2007, 07:26 PM
bjustus bjustus is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonathanCook
We have plenty of room in the sky for all the airplanes to fly. The bottleneck is runway space. At large airports more runways need to be built for simultaneous takeoffs and landings. As we know it is almost impossible to build additional runways because of all the political red tape.
EXACTLY right. Air Taxi services will not add to congestion, but relieve it by enabling more people to use the other 4900 or so airports that are not hubs. The airlines are already losing the cream of the crop (first class/business travelers) to GA and they know it; hence the propaganda warfare and throwing large sums of money at congress. I fly for SATSair, < www.satsair.com > an air taxi company that's already been in business almost three years -- (got off the ground using the SR22) and the passengers are coming in droves. We fly about 1800 people per month. Most of our pax are actually going on trips that would have been driven, or just not possible (due to departure point and/or destination being too far from major airport) otherwise, and we're not pulling too many from the airlines; but once the VLJs are fully implemented, the airlines will lose more of the higher paying customers and have to revamp more and more to the LCC type operation.

Last edited by bjustus : 09-10-2007 at 07:33 PM.
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  #26  
Old 09-10-2007, 08:49 PM
FiveNinerTIM FiveNinerTIM is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Canby, Oregon
Posts: 18
Default Business Week - Worth Reading

Just read the cover story in the September 10th, 2007 Business Week magazine. Good article and worth reading. Very relevant to this thread.

Regards to all,
Tim
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