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  #11  
Old 09-06-2007, 08:06 AM
grumpe grumpe is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 12
Default Really novice question

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mel
The RV-12 will initially be offered as an amateur-built kit that meets the flight parameters for light-sport.
Before it can be offered as an "E-LSA kit", the kit manufacturer must first certify a "Special Light-Sport" aircraft of the same model.
So as a VERY new to this topic person interested in the 12 and sport pilot, am I correct in understanding that if I were to build a 12 as an experimental and it met the light sport aircraft parameters I could fly it as such even if Van's does not have it certified as a light sport AC yet? Also, if this is allowed you could make changes such as instruments as long as the AC still met the parameters of the rules, correct?

Great resource folks! Thanks for sharing your knowledge.

Eric
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  #12  
Old 09-06-2007, 08:22 AM
Sam Buchanan's Avatar
Sam Buchanan Sam Buchanan is offline
been here awhile
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: North Alabama
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grumpe
So as a VERY new to this topic person interested in the 12 and sport pilot, am I correct in understanding that if I were to build a 12 as an experimental and it met the light sport aircraft parameters I could fly it as such even if Van's does not have it certified as a light sport AC yet? Also, if this is allowed you could make changes such as instruments as long as the AC still met the parameters of the rules, correct?
Correct on both counts.
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  #13  
Old 09-06-2007, 08:27 AM
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Mel Mel is online now
 
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What Sam said!
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Mel Asberry, DAR since the last century.
EAA Flight Advisor/Tech Counselor, Friend of the RV-1
Recipient of Tony Bingelis Award and Wright Brothers Master Pilot Award
USAF Vet, High School E-LSA Project Mentor.
RV-6 Flying since 1993 (sold)
<rvmel(at)icloud.com>
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  #14  
Old 09-06-2007, 08:34 AM
grumpe grumpe is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Nebraska
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Default

Wow,

You guys are fast!

Thanks for the replies.

Eric
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  #15  
Old 09-06-2007, 10:44 AM
JimLogajan JimLogajan is offline
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Dexter, OR
Posts: 96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankS
Since the CG range is usually a percentage of the chord maybe the 12 will pick up a little more CG range with the new wing.

Frank
While it is true that CG range is normally stated as a percentage of chord, I believe that CG range is primarily established by other factors (such as the range of elevator authority, the area of the main wing, the area of the tail, and the distance between the main wing's mean chord and tail wing's mean chord.) Of the approximation formulas that I am aware of, the width of the main wing doesn't appear in them. However, I am not an aerodynamicist and don't play one on TV.
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  #16  
Old 09-07-2007, 08:13 AM
mcsteatlh mcsteatlh is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Kingwood
Posts: 80
Default and..

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimLogajan
While it is true that CG range is normally stated as a percentage of chord, I believe that CG range is primarily established by other factors (such as the range of elevator authority, the area of the main wing, the area of the tail, and the distance between the main wing's mean chord and tail wing's mean chord.) Of the approximation formulas that I am aware of, the width of the main wing doesn't appear in them. However, I am not an aerodynamicist and don't play one on TV.
And you didn't sleep at a Holday Inn Expess last night either!!!

he he
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  #17  
Old 09-08-2007, 08:27 AM
FrankS FrankS is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Cortland NY
Posts: 67
Default Vans Marketing approach?

I'm really surprised at Vans marketing approach. I think RV enthusiests are perhaps more interested in technical details than other experimental groups. So why is Vans holding back on the updates on the RV-12? Surely they have made some progress since the last update of June 19th.

Could it be (as Van has suggested himself in interviews) that this new design is going to take longer to complete than the typical evolution of the other RV designs? I didn't want to use the word "complex" and convey the wrong image but any completely new design has a lot of little details to resolve. Especially if you are preparing production tooling and assembly manuals at the same time.

Still, some kind of progress report would be appreciated. I would think monthly updates would be sufficient to hold peoples interest.

Frank
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  #18  
Old 09-08-2007, 10:51 AM
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Mel Mel is online now
 
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Default RV-12 first to be PRE-announced!

My guess for the reason Van is holding back on information is that every time he makes an announcement, You guys jump in line to tell him why it is wrong. You've told him that the landing gear is wrong, the engine choice is wrong, the canopy is wrong, the fuel tank is wrong. If you don't like the -12, then go build something else.
If you will look at history, you'll notice that in the past Van has not announced a new airplane until it was ready for the market. Now I'm beginning to see why.
Sorry for the rant. I'll go back to work now.
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Mel Asberry, DAR since the last century.
EAA Flight Advisor/Tech Counselor, Friend of the RV-1
Recipient of Tony Bingelis Award and Wright Brothers Master Pilot Award
USAF Vet, High School E-LSA Project Mentor.
RV-6 Flying since 1993 (sold)
<rvmel(at)icloud.com>
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  #19  
Old 09-08-2007, 01:23 PM
FrankS FrankS is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Cortland NY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mel
My guess for the reason Van is holding back on information is that every time he makes an announcement, You guys jump in line to tell him why it is wrong. You've told him that the landing gear is wrong, the engine choice is wrong, the canopy is wrong, the fuel tank is wrong. If you don't like the -12, then go build something else.
If you will look at history, you'll notice that in the past Van has not announced a new airplane until it was ready for the market. Now I'm beginning to see why.
Sorry for the rant. I'll go back to work now.
Easy Mel. I've actually been one of the guys on the forum that likes the design and I look forward to the improvements. I don't think Van is offended by the feedback of these forums (even negative feedback) because that at least shows interest in the product. Vans self stated concerns are whether there is sufficient market for a LSA and forums like these provide some valuable feedback as to what the market is looking for in an LSA.

Although I'm not all that fond of some of Rans Marketing approach in some ways they have been diligent in posting the deevlopment progress of the S-19 which has been entertaining and informative.

Its just curious minds want to know.

Frank
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  #20  
Old 09-08-2007, 02:23 PM
SweetJellyDonut SweetJellyDonut is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: America's Hi-tech Cowtown
Posts: 50
Thumbs up My sentiments exactly...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mel
My guess for the reason Van is holding back on information is that every time he makes an announcement, You guys jump in line to tell him why it is wrong. You've told him that the landing gear is wrong, the engine choice is wrong, the canopy is wrong, the fuel tank is wrong. If you don't like the -12, then go build something else.
If you will look at history, you'll notice that in the past Van has not announced a new airplane until it was ready for the market. Now I'm beginning to see why.
Sorry for the rant. I'll go back to work now.
I, for one, appreciate the updates and picitures that Van's has been providing. I'm content to wait for the final numbers and specs. I just like to know they are still making progress on it, in whatever form it will take. Let's give em a chance to bring it to market.

I'm sure all the things about it people dont like, some third party will offer a product.
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RV-10 or CH-640 (to bring the family along)
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