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  #1  
Old 01-09-2021, 07:27 PM
PhatRV PhatRV is online now
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Buena Park, California
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Default Advices Needed Before Engine Install

I am doing the various preparation to my new IO360-M1B engine before installing it onto my RV8. I am looking for the advices from those who have done this before to what precautions I should take to install the engine without damage.

I have read the various posts about mounting the engine with the tail down or tail up in order to make the installation easier. I will probably determine the best attitude when that day arrives, and also based on the available help I can muster that day.

I notice on my engine, most of the rear accessories are already mounted such as oil filter, magnetos, etc. Should I remove these equipment from the rear of the engine in order to make the installation easier? Or by removing them before hand, it would make the accessory reinstallation difficult?

In term of removing the sparkplug to drain the preservation oil, what is the recommended torque value to reinstall the plug?

I am looking forward to hear all the advices you guys can give,

Thanks
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  #2  
Old 01-09-2021, 07:40 PM
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wjb wjb is offline
 
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Location: Half Moon Bay, CA
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Read through all the engine "how to's" here on VAF to help you prep - such as this recent post by Draker, where I had the pleasure to help the install.

https://vansairforce.net/community/s...35&postcount=4

Don't remove the mags, etc ... all the pre-installed installed items can stay in place and be sure to add the hard to install items, like the oil pressure fitting prior to install.

For torques and things, post a copy of the relevant pages of the Lycoming SSP-1776 (https://www.lycoming.com/special-ser...tion-no-1776-5) doc that gives specs for the torques of all items on the engine.

Like primer, you mileage may vary but I've used the technique, below, twice with excellent success.

Hanging the engine
August 27, 2015; archived from"http://myrv8.com/2015/08/hanging-the-engine/" which does not seem active any more.

Short version is this: Their advice was to forget the procedure I’d been trying. Instead, they said, mount the two bottom bolts and isolators first. Only after that, use the lift to manipulate the engine and get the top ones in with the bolts lined up, and the isolators will be offset to the outside of the “cups” in the engine mount. Get a good heavy rubber mallet or a piece of 2x4 and heavier hammer, and start tapping the mounts to get them to slide laterally into the cups on the mount. Then move the engine relative to the air frame to get things to move into place and together, and get the bolts in. “You’ll never get it the way you’ve been trying,” I was told. Use the bottom-first method and I’d be done in a handful of minutes.


1. Prepare all the hardware. Make sure the (slightly) longer bolts will be used on the bottom mounts. The shorter ones go on top.

2. Note that the mount biscuits are of two types – one is a little less think and is harder, and the other is slightly thicker and a softer rubber. They look different. Refer to the drawing. Also, refer to the drawings, and then do so again. Don’t get this wrong. The engine’s weight load goes on the harder halves, meaning at the top mount points they are closest to the firewall/on the back side of the mount points, and on the bottom they are located on the front side of the mount, between the mount and the engine block. The side that gets squished by the weight when the engine is hanging on the mount in a positive-g, upright position is where the thinner/harder ones go.

3. Refer to the drawings. Know them well.

4. There are metal spacers tubes in the kit which you will use. Don’t forget them like I did with one. They slide onto the both in the gap between the mount halves and prevent the rubber mounts from squeezing too close together, and prevent them from bottoming out.

5. Hang your engine on the hoist. Remove any hoses or items that might get in the way.

6. Make sure you have inserted the oil pressure line’s restrictor AN fitting at the right top rear of the engine. It faces outboard and the 45-degree fitting needs to be inserted before you mount the engine or else you won’t be able to get it in there. Some engines (mine included) have a second port that faces directly aft, and you can put a straight restrictor fitting in there if you like. But check and make sure. Best to install it permanently before you mount the engine.

7. Move the engine into place on the hoist. Insert the lower mount rubber biscuits and the thick washers used on the lower mount points between the engine mount and the engine block first (these are the thinner/hard ones). Don’t forget those two washers that go on the bottom, and be sure to put the spacer sleeves on the bolts when you insert the bolts, the larger washers and the other half of the shock mounts on the aft side of the engine mount.

8. In my case, it was pretty easy to get the bottom mounts in place. Don’t worry about getting the rubber biscuits centered in the cups on the engine mount. Just get the bolts through them and into the holes in the engine. If they line up, great. If not, use a rubber mallet or a piece of 2x4 or similar block of wood with a hammer to tap the mounts in to place. Start with the ones on the engine side of the metal engine mount, then the ones on the aft side.

9. Tighten both bolts and nuts until they tighten down on the spacers.

10. Next, use the hoist to move the engine up and about level. Try to insert the bolts through the large washers/rubber pieces/spacers and the holes in the engine block. The last part will likely be difficult and there’s a very good chance that when you get the bolts just barely inserted in the engine, the rubber pieces will sit quite a bit outboard and not in the cups. Do your best to get things lined up and as pushed together as you can along the bolt axis.

11. Use the lift to raise and lower the engine a little bit at a time. Try to get things to further come together. In my case, I lifted the engine until the nose gear on the 8A was several inches off the ground, and all of a sudden things started to fit better. I was able to slide the rubber biscuits together more and the bolt went in just a little further. Not all the way, but enough to lower the whole things somewhat and have things stay in place.

12. Once back on the nose gear (and with the wheel barely touching the ground) I again took the 2x4 section and hammer and started working the rubber pieces into the centerline, tapping until they popped into place in the engine mount cups. Them some more raising and lowering to get things further aligned, and finally dropped the hole thing onto the gear, keeping just some weight on the hoist chain.

13. At this point I was able to get a socket wrench out and turn the bolt, which immediately threaded its way through the engine case holes and out the other side. Then came washers and nuts, and all was done.
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Last edited by wjb : 01-09-2021 at 07:46 PM.
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  #3  
Old 01-09-2021, 08:56 PM
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jcarne jcarne is offline
 
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I have had the pleasure recently of mounting my engine three different times. I can tell you for certain it is not as big a deal as it sounds. My technique is as follows:

1. upper left mount, torque almost until the mount bottoms.

2. upper right mount, torque almost until the mount bottoms. You may have to play around with how tight the other mount is to get this bolt in.

3. use the hoist to slightly lift the engine up just enough to slide in the necessary washer on the bottom and start the bolt. Usually this bolt doesn't fight too much. It will usually pop in once you take the weight of the engine off the hoist. Tighten until nut bottoms out.

4. The other bottom bolt is usually the toughest. Same process 3. You may have to play around with how far the other bolts are bottomed at this point. I also use a mirror to see how the hole is misaligned and use this info to tweak the other mounts.

The first time I did it it took about 45 min. The last time I did it. About 10 minutes.

P.S. Van's is now using non drilled bolts and all metal locknuts on most models. Highly recommend you at least do it on the bottom mounts. Those are reaaaaaaal treat to try and cotter! They are even worse to try and remove!
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  #4  
Old 01-09-2021, 10:58 PM
PhatRV PhatRV is online now
 
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Thanks for very detailed answer. I will bookmark this page and refer to it again after I finish preping the engine.

Having downloaded the Lycoming torque document, does the torque value of the spark plug look right? It says the torque value is 420in-lbs.
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RV8 standard build: Empennage 99% completed
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Fuselage -- Canopy Done. Fiberglass 80%
Avionics Installation -- 90%
Firewall Forward -- Engine hung
Electrical -- 90%

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  #5  
Old 01-09-2021, 11:04 PM
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jcarne jcarne is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhatRV View Post
Thanks for very detailed answer. I will bookmark this page and refer to it again after I finish preping the engine.

Having downloaded the Lycoming torque document, does the torque value of the spark plug look right? It says the torque value is 420in-lbs.
That is correct for an aviation plug. Don't forget a new copper washer too.
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  #6  
Old 01-09-2021, 11:50 PM
BobTurner BobTurner is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcarne View Post
That is correct for an aviation plug. Don't forget a new copper washer too.
+1 Same as 35 ft-lbs. Dont forget a small amount of graphite lube on the threads, keep it away from the electrodes.
Also, even though the mags came installed, check their timing.
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  #7  
Old 01-10-2021, 07:10 AM
BillL BillL is offline
 
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Default No forcing should be used.

Good background here, but read this too.

Don't think about mounting the engine as a one and done. I did not have the room in the basement so mounted the frame to the engine while it was on a lift hook. Instructions without understanding can work, but here is the physical perspective you need - - the mounts are focused, meaning the bolt axis meet at a single point, a focus. The farther you are from the focus, the father apart the holes become. This is why you begin to snug up two adjacent bolts, it allows the other two become close enough to insert the bolt. This is key.

IMPORTANT: it is much easier if you get/borrow the mount bolt bullets to align the holes for bolt insertion.

I solo mounted my engine in 15 minutes with the bolts snugged, on the hook. This means no forcing it into position.

Using an auto engine lift (cherry picker) with a threaded rod to level the engine made it super easy to repeatedly install to the firewall from the engine lift. This is much easier with all level but not required. No forcing was needed, but some alignment bolts make it really slick. Still done solo.

This way, you can easily remove the engine when you come across doing tasks that are so much easier with the engine off. Just leave it on the frame and remove at the firewall.

Now - getting the bolts torqued and aligned for a cotter pin is a real PITA.
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  #8  
Old 01-10-2021, 07:24 AM
Jpm757 Jpm757 is offline
 
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Before you fire that thing up, check the magneto timing. My new IO-360 M1B mag timing was way off as received from Lycoming.
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  #9  
Old 01-10-2021, 08:53 AM
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jcarne jcarne is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jpm757 View Post
Before you fire that thing up, check the magneto timing. My new IO-360 M1B mag timing was way off as received from Lycoming.
+1 Same here

Mine was only off by about 3 degrees, but still, it needed fixed.
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  #10  
Old 01-10-2021, 04:18 PM
PhatRV PhatRV is online now
 
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Default Oil Line Fitting for Oil Pressure

What is the fitting do you guys use to attach to the oil pump outlet so the oil cooler line + oil pressure sensor line can be attached? Can you provide the AN part number?

This is the oil port below the oil filter where I think the oil fitting should go which allow for the connection of the big oil line and the smaller oil pressure sensor AN fitting.

This is the oil pressure AN fitting to the sensor according to the plan.

Thanks
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__________________
RV8 standard build: Empennage 99% completed
Wing -- Closed
Fuselage -- Canopy Done. Fiberglass 80%
Avionics Installation -- 90%
Firewall Forward -- Engine hung
Electrical -- 90%

Donation paid through 2021
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