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  #111  
Old 08-28-2019, 04:53 PM
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czechsix czechsix is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanH View Post
9430 is fine.
Did you use the Hysol 9430 for any particular attributes or was it just what you had handy? I have some West System epoxy that I've used for some of the fairing work...any reason it would not be equally suitable for bonding the fairing to the aluminum?
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  #112  
Old 08-29-2019, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by czechsix View Post
Did you use the Hysol 9430 for any particular attributes or was it just what you had handy? I have some West System epoxy that I've used for some of the fairing work...any reason it would not be equally suitable for bonding the fairing to the aluminum?
I had it handy; it's a good general use structural adhesive.

Compared to laminating formulations, epoxies intended as structural adhesive often spec lower in modulus, tensile, shear, and Shore hardness. Although "lower" as a desirable trait is non-intuitive, it is a trade-off in return for higher peel strength, the classic Achilles heel. Think "less brittle, more rubbery".
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  #113  
Old 08-07-2020, 08:35 AM
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Not an RV, but some may find the techniques transferable, and I'd love to see a bit more custom stuff in our fleet. These parts feature carbon's primary structural attribute, stiffness. They're for an orphan Rans S-9 which wandered into my shop.

The standard canopy is not tall enough for me, and it's ugly as sin.



I decided to convert to an open cockpit sportster, a fun flying adjunct to the RV-8. At the regular 08A Sunday sunset meeting, one of the group sort of dared me to build it all in lightweight carbon, which was actually sensible, unlike most of our beer meeting ideas. The current plan will make both sections removable with just a few fasteners, quickly exposing the entire interior of the fuselage for inspection and maintenance.

Really stiff parts at lowest weight require that the top and bottom fiber elements be moved apart with a core element. Here I went with 1/8" honeycomb, similar to a Vans cowl. The best matrix application (the epoxy) would be to use pre-preg, but I was far too lazy to build the necessary oven, pre-preg is expensive, and cheap foam forms can't be baked anyway. The game was to see what I could do with a typical home shop wet layup, vacuum bagged.

First thing was to make two foam forms. They required a nice surface finish, in particular the turtledeck, because I want to leave the inside carbon pattern exposed. For whatever reason, folks just love the look.

Methods are just like the smaller parts in previous posts...shape foam, seal it, give it a smooth finish, wax, PVA, and do the layups.







Clean up, then lay out and cut all the materials.



Now for the fun part. Very rapidly, drape the first ply of 5.7 oz twill on the form, wet it out, then drape the honeycomb. Wet out the top ply of twill between plastic sheet to keep epoxy ratio reasonable, peel one side of the plastic, and drape it over the honeycomb. Add a perforated release ply, and a bleeder ply, then slide the whole thing into a big bag (furniture storage bags are huge), seal it, and apply vacuum.



The raw turtledeck shell, untrimmed, weighs a bit over two pounds. It would be a little lighter if made from prepreg, as there is some excess epoxy with the wet layup. However, the wetness means the interior finish is attractive with no other work. It is very stiff, and not being structural, more than strong enough to mount on the airplane with no interior ribs. It's just a big fairing. I will put a headrest bulkhead in the cockpit end.

The cockpit cover was made in a similar fashion, but with more carbon (5.7 twill and 12oz plain weave on the inside, 12 oz plain and a top sheet of 9 oz glass on the outside). It must support the windshield, and stand up to abuse when the pilot gets in and out.

Plenty more detail work to do, but here are the basic shells. I have two windshields, one the forward end of a broken RV-4 bubble, and this one, the aft end of an RV-8 bubble I found in the shop attic. I have not decided between them yet, but it should be a cute airplane either way. More later.

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  #114  
Old 08-07-2020, 07:47 PM
BillL BillL is offline
 
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So, Dan, is your vacuum pump regulated? What depression are you using? My pump would suck the foam down flat
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  #115  
Old 08-07-2020, 08:27 PM
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So, Dan, is your vacuum pump regulated? What depression are you using? My pump would suck the foam down flat
Yep, limited to around 20", controlled leak when necessary. Seems to be close to the limit for pink foam. My crappy little junkyard pump rarely pulls more than 22" or so anyway.
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Last edited by DanH : 08-08-2020 at 05:36 AM.
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  #116  
Old 08-07-2020, 08:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanH View Post
. They're for an orphan Rans S-9 which wandered into my shop.
Wandered in-------right
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  #117  
Old 08-08-2020, 05:12 PM
BillL BillL is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanH View Post
Yep, limited to around 20", controlled leak when necessary. Seems to be close to the limit for pink foam. My crappy little junkyard pump rarely pulls more than 22" or so anyway.
I have to get a different pump and try this on my next vacuum bag project. The actual vacuum pump i use for infusion can not tolerate excess air with a leak.

Thanks!!
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and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you
cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge
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  #118  
Old 10-09-2020, 07:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillL View Post
So, Dan, is your vacuum pump regulated? What depression are you using? My pump would suck the foam down flat
Bill, a little follow up. Added a 5oz twill carbon top ply after bonding in the forward bulkhead and a bunch of other little details, then loaded on a batch of micro and blocked it flat. Note the faint stripe pattern. Tells me the pump did suck the foam in a little bit, even at 20" or so. I could drop suction to 10", and it would just suck it in half as much. When I think about it, it can't be any other way, as all materials exhibit strain behavior. And as usual, you make me think
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  #119  
Old 10-11-2020, 07:32 PM
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Redneck engineering doesn't always require fancy test equipment.

This a a carbon fiber mount for a BRS parachute canister. The "official" mounting method means kluging lengths of steel tube into the airframe, and bolting the canister to it using a big steel bracket from BRS. Just the steel bracket alone is 1.25 lbs. Figured there had to be a better way.

It's a hollow shell, mostly 12k plain weave carbon, bagged on a foam form then closed at the back later in the assembly. Not going to describe the whole process here, although I hope you find it inspirational. It did save weight as desired. The whole assembly, with the BRS-supplied steel straps, is only a fuzz over 2 lbs.

The redneck part was making sure it was strong enough...see the last photo. The entire canister, rocket, and mounting system is just over 20 lbs. If a 220 lb redneck can dance around on the mounted canister without a problem, it has to be good for at least 11G
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  #120  
Old 10-11-2020, 11:27 PM
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rv8ch rv8ch is offline
 
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... If a 220 lb redneck can dance around on the mounted canister without a problem, it has to be good for at least 11G
Looks more like yoga to me Dan! Looking forward to your thread on how to use your rag and tube aircraft as a makeshift yoga mat!
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