10 yr old RV 10 kit - Should I buy It? Is it a good deal?

[golfmogul]

I have an opportunity to purchase a 10 year old RV 10 kit. It includes the Emp and the QB Fuselage and Wings. The empennage kit and tail cone have been built. Everything appears to be in good condition. I've looked but didn't read each safety release from Vans since 2010, so I don't know if there have been huge changes to the kits since then. Would a finishing kit from 2020 fit onto the 2010 QB fuselage? Will there be other issues with new parts not working on this 10 year old kit? Is $43,500 a good deal for this kit? (it saves me having to build the Emp & tail cone, and saves me 8-9 months waiting for a QB kit if I ordered it now from Vans). Assuming all the hardware, plans, etc are there, & assuming that all pieces are in good condition, is this a good deal (seems like it). I know he does not have much in the way of pics or documentation to prove that he (as an amateur builder) did the tail cone & Emp work ... but someone at Vans today told me that this happens often when someone sells a partially built kit & the purchaser who finishes the build doesn't have an issue proving the amateur 51% rule despite not having documentation from the 1st builder.

Other thoughts/warnings? Am I crazy? Should I just take the safe/slow route and buy from Vans?

Thx in advance for your advice - I really value it.

[BobTurner]

My thoughts:
1. Make sure you get a written , signed letter, from the original builder, stating that he (and/or other unpaid workers) did the work completed so far.
2. Carefully inspect any aluminum that still has blue vinyl on it. Corrosion sometimes starts under it.
3. You will miss the tail kit assembly. The instructions for that part are particularly detailed, to get new builders off to a good start.
4. If 1-3 are okay, I’d try to negotiate a somewhat lower price. IIRC $40K is about the original cost, in 2010.

Added: I have paperwork from 2008. At that time these kits were $38.5 K. There have been only a few SBs, none deal killers. However, I think this era will have the pink fiberglass cabin top. The new kits have the gray top, by most accounts, better out of the mold. Ditto for all the other fiberglass pieces, although some of them will come in the finishing kit, iirc. Note Vans has announced that they are going to go to punching holes to final size on the -10, as they do now for the -14. This can be a real time saver. I do not know when this will be fully implemented but could be used as a negotiating point.

[Kyle Boatright]

Buying a second hand kit is a great course of action. You can get a good financial deal that way which also saves you some time. The RV-10 kit has not changed much at all over the years (other than the recent announcement about going to full sized punched holes), but that shouldn't be an issue as far along as this kit seems to be.

Get an experienced builder to help you inspect the kit. Check for corrosion on assemblies and also unassembled items. Check for completeness. Check for quality of work and conformance to plans.

And if you have found a nice kit, buy it. You'll come out ahead.

But take your time on the inspection. A few errors or bad rivets is not a problem, but if you find big picture workmanship problems, it's time to reconsider.

[walker172]

I bought my kit second hand, but it was from an Oshkosh award winning builder. Everything was exceptionally well built and documented in the plans. Still, I had to order little things like rivets and some hardware. Inevitably the ones that came with the kit got dumped into an organizer somewhere. Be sure to calculate some extra money for hardware that you will almost certainly need to buy.

It can be a bit frustrating when you get to a part in the plans and then realize you don’t have the bolts you need and have to wait a week or two while they get ordered.

[Ironflight]

One thing to remember about buying a kit that is that far along - you have mentioned in other threads that a great unknown for you is your ability to do the kind of work required to build an airplane, and the reason that folks start a Vans kit with the tail kit is that it teaches you skills along the way, in a manner that is simpler and easier to afford if you make mistakes. Picking up a kit in the middle is far more difficult for an inexperienced builder than starting out with the simple, easy stuff.

There is a saying in this world that when you are 90% done, you only have 90% left to go - and it is fairly true. When it looks like an airplane, you still have as much time to put in as you did getting to that point. And there is a LOT to learn. So if you have doubts about your ability to build, buying into a project in the middle is not always the best way to assure completion.

Paul

[grubbat]

Corrosion and that blue wrap are the things to look out for as well as mistakes made by previous person. The blue wrap can be a nightmare to remove if it’s been on there a couple of years and especially is it has been sun bleached onto the metal. Ask me how I know. Just the thought of it gives me heartburn and I got over that 5 years ago.

[cderk]

I would echo Paul’s comments. My thought is that if you have never built before, I would be careful. When a new builder starts off with the tail kit, if they decide its not for them, you’re out $5k. You could lose more than that, along with the hassle of you trying to sell this kit if it doesn’t work out.

The tail kit is where I learned most of the skills i needed to finish the rest of the kit

[Latech15]

I had the option to buy a emp kit at a little discount before I started my build and I passed on it. I really wanted to do the whole build myself. I wanted the learning curve to happen the way Van’s has engineered it. If you had built a few planes, no big deal. For a first build, I’d build the whole thing. Full price for a 10 yr old kit is ridiculous. Partially built kits are worth less than their cost, and that is inversely proportional to their percentage complete. A kit still in the crate is worth close to Van’s price. Half finished or more and it is worth less.

You can see the couple of nearly complete 10’s that have been posted here recently. They are priced at a huge discount from those that are finished and flying. The commitment really has to be to the very end or prepare to lose money.

[Dantilla]

Every Van's kit has a build number. Comes with the empennage kit.
When buying a partially-built kit like this, you need a Bill of Sale that includes the build number sent to the factory, and they will transfer ownership to you.
Whenever parts are ordered, you will include the build number. This helps insure you are getting exactly what you need for your kit.

I bought my empennage kit when I took the factory tour. Awfully convenient to stuff it in the car and take it home with me.
(Also- No sales tax in Oregon)

About the time I was to order wings & fuselage, a guy local to me put his kit up for sale, as he was a one-man transmission shop who didn't have time to continue building- It was just taking up valuable space in his shop.
Having sat for a few years I was concerned about the blue vinyl, but it has been no problem. Never in sunlight, always dry, it peels of almost as easily as new, and zero corrosion.

[catcrew]

My wing kit was about 12 years old when I bought it second had. You will have to do the aileron hinge mod that attaches to the rear spar. The older ailerons also are built a little different than those being delivered for the last 5 years or so. No big deal, just be aware of it and know what you have will not match the videos and pictures of folks building the more modern ones. When you order the digital plans, you will see both sets of plans for the different types of ailerons. Also the older wings have the older wingtips that will need a little "fixin" as we say here in the south. If you plan to go aftermarket tips, this is not an issue.