RV-4 as a 200hr pilot?

[fixnflyguy]

I have two close friends I introduced to the world of RV's that had less than 150 hrs TT, one now flying an RV-8 and the other an RV-4. Another young man I am helping to mentor is stepping into his newly purchased RV-6A, and he is only a student pilot working on his PPL. All 3 of these guys are sharp, determined and cautious. These guys are all around 30 years old, and to them RV's have been the Millennial choice of new aircraft rather than us greybeard's that had much less choices at that age. None of these 3 gentlemen had a minute of tailwheel time, and received their endorsements in an RV. The 3 of them are all members of VAF and may chime in of their own personal experiences. The RV Grin runs deep at our little airport !

[daddyman]

Originally Posted by Brian_G

As the title says, I'd like to get the collective wisdom of those who have gone before me here on an RV-4 as the next step up from where I'm at. It's what I've wanted since long before I even started flight training, it fits the mission, but is it a reasonable choice for someone with my experience level?

I'm a 200hr private pilot. I fly solely for fun and occasional travel. I got my license in a 172, then bought a 150 as something to just have fun with and get more experience in a plane I knew I could jump in with wet ink on my PPL and handle. For 2 years that's been a blast, but (1) I've always viewed the 150 as a stepping stone and (2) I'm ready for something more fun.

I've got a fresh tailwheel endorsement after 5 hrs in a Husky. When I called up AOPA's brokers to inquire about insurance requirements for an RV4 they quoted me 15 hrs dual, which seems reasonable to me and I'd assume doable with one of the transition guys in a 6 or 8 over a weekend or two.

I was talking to a mechanic/pilot who generally seems to know his stuff about wanting an RV4 soon, and he was adamant that an RV is too much airplane for a 200 hr pilot, so after giving it a little thought I figured it might be wise to ask the same question of those who really know these airplanes. Assuming I take the transition training seriously (which I will), am I missing something that would make this a bad idea for someone in my situation?

My alternative plan is probably just selling the 150 and buying a simple taildragger like a Champ to play with for another 100 hrs or so, but then I have the same type of anemic performance with only the added fun of a tailwheel...it'll still be a great time, but not quite the same fulfillment of a dream.

Brian,
Bought mine with 212 hrs in the logbook. Got 4-star transition training from Dave Austin (DTO), and loved it ever since. Flying the -4 made me a much better pilot. GO FOR IT.
Daddyman

[rmartingt]

FWIW my dad was willing to let me run off with his new RV-6 when I was 20 and had less than 100 hours. Although, he first spent 20-30 hours with me imparting some wisdom from his military and airline flying, teaching me suff my CFI never covered, and assuring himself that I wouldn't bend the airplane up. I did my tailwheel signoff in that airplane, too.

[FinnFlyer]

I had 184 hours over 14 years before doing first flight in my RV-3 on a long narrow runway.

That included some 15 hours tailwheel training in Champs, Decathlon and 4 hours dual with Mike Sager in his RV6. Tailwheel endorsement was in the Decathlon.

I found the RV-3 a pussycat compared to the Champ and Decathlon.

Don't know about the RV-4 yet -- have heard you need to add slight power at flare -- but surely can't be that different from the RV-3.

Just because the RV can go fast doesn't mean you have to. Start slow (C150/C172 cruise speeds) and then increase speed when you're comfortably ahead of the airplane.

Finn

[luddite42]

Originally Posted by Brian_G

he was adamant that an RV is too much airplane for a 200 hr pilot

Absolute nonsense. RVs are about the most powderpuff easy, straightforward friendly tailwheel airplanes in the world to fly and land. Just get some decent RV dual and you will be fine. I come from the acro world, and guess what...200 hour pilots transition much more easily to Pitts' and aerobatics than pilots who have been droning around in Cessnas for 25 years and decide to do something new. Pilots in the latter category bring ingrained fears, beliefs, and habits that can be hard to retrain. You are fresh and easy to train. And it's just a dang airplane, and a very easy one at that.

[cheeselion]

I have 35 hours in my RV-4 and I'm still not quite at 200 hours TT!

I did all my initial training in a Citabria so I suppose my feet were a little more awake than is typical, but I'm not a hotshot pilot by any means. Truth be told the speed and lack of ability to go down and slow down at the same time has caught me out more than once, but never in a dangerous way... just in a way that makes me look dumb to ATC. I had to do 10 hours of dual in an RV-6 for insurance signoff.

In return I get an airplane that flies fast, far and can go upside down.

Do it!

[Lufthans]

Wise words: just because it CAN go fast, it doesn't mean you have to.

It lands as slow as a SuperCub. And as a taildragger, it's probably easier than the Cub too. It has no mean vices and is beautifully balanced. View is excellent too. Certainly better than the Cub in that respect.

Just don't start with a passenger. It's a lot more stable when flown solo.

My first flight in an RV-4 was at around my 200-hour mark. No brainer, really.

You'll love it!

[andrewtac]

When this comes up it always kind of makes me laugh a little, not at others so much but at how I had no idea what was going on in the beginning for me. I had a little more than 200 hours and was learning to fly AV-8Bs (probably hovering a jet solo around 300 total). Soloed in the a T-34C I think in the 10's of hours; soloed in the T45 in the 50-80 hour range. I was taking traps on a boat at less than 200 hours total time. These are rough numbers, but I am not different than any other naval aviator. Does than mean RV4 at 200 hours OK, no. Military training programs do a decent job at weeding out those who can't do it rather quickly (most are out in the very early stages). Also, military training is probably above average of what you get on the street, and they ramp you up on performance rather quickly. Bottom line, anything is possible. RVs are more docile than military basic trainers, but not as forgiving in some areas (like landing gear, mil trainers can take a beating) and more forgiving in other ways (I can't get into a spin or nasty stall easily in my RV8, but the T34 I remember would go a little wild in approach turn stalls). Know your limits, get good transition training, and it should be a none issue.

[RV8JD]

Originally Posted by andrewtac

Know your limits, get good transition training, and it should be a none issue.

Good advice above. For a low time pilot, good, thorough transition training is the key. Sometimes I see posts by new RV pilots describing something they have experienced in their RVs which surprised them and I think, geez, that should have been taught/demonstrated/experienced during their transition training, but it wasn't.

Of note is this quote by Van (from one of his training articles) regarding pilot capability ("Mike" is Mike Seager):

[FinnFlyer]

I was one of Mike's 25%.

Hadn't flow 3 hours in the past year. And that was one C-152 rental, cross country and 6 landings. No airwork. The year before that a couple of hours. Only airwork was during BFR. May be common when in "builder's mode".

In other words, you have a C-150. Use it to practice as for the FAA PP practical test. Then the transition training does not have to include getting you "current" and can concentrate on getting you familiar with the RV. On the other hand if insurance requires 10+ hours in RV, it may not be relevant.

Finn