POTUS TFR Incursion

[scsmith]

Originally Posted by alcladrv

Even the "official" TFR site has a big red-boxed CYA at the bottom which reads:

Depicted TFR data may not be a complete listing. Pilots should not use the information on this website for flight planning purposes. For the latest information, call your local Flight Service Station at 1-800-WX-BRIEF.

That's why I always call, BUT if the FSS doesn't even have the "latest" TFR charted, as was my case, it seems we, the pilots, would still be to blame, because we all know what rolls downhill! I highly doubt Foreflight, Garmin Pilot or ADS-B would take the rap for an uncharted active TFR.

Y'all be careful out there.

This seems like a real catch-22. The official TFR site may not have a complete listing, and says to check FSS. The OP's direct experience shows the FSS doesn't necessarily have the complete current info. Seems pretty hard to expect to enforce a TFR if neither of the official sources have it.

BTW, 9 times out of 10 when I call FSS from the air, I get no answer. Flightwatch used to be incrementally better, but that's gone now.

I tend to use VFR flight following pretty regularly, in the hopes that the controllers will alert me and/or vector me around TFRs. Not a guarantee (nothing seems to be) but it is one additional layer of protection.

[MIKE JG]

Everyone can and should sign up for automatic notifications from the FAA regarding TFR's for your area, easy to do and only takes a few minutes. You can and should follow social media sites that also notify pilots of pending TFR's.

In today's age of smart phone tech, there's no excuse not to know. We're now entering silly season, make sure you always check for TFR's before you depart.

I freaked out the other day when I say his two VH-3 helicopters along with two V-22's flying westbound over my home town. My friends were up flying at that time and I thought they were screwed. Once I looked at the notams and TFR, the TFR for that presidential visit wasn't for another 48 hours and those silly Marine aviators were apparently out practicing their route and remote landing site procedures for a POTUS visit 48 hours from then.

Got my heart going a bit to see that flight of 4....

[Whitman]

Has anyone ever noticed an active TFR is not posted graphically on ForeFlight or via ADSB?

I realize the phone call is the only approved method but I’m wondering how vulnerable other methods are.

[lr172]

Originally Posted by alcladrv

Even the "official" TFR site has a big red-boxed CYA at the bottom which reads:

Depicted TFR data may not be a complete listing. Pilots should not use the information on this website for flight planning purposes. For the latest information, call your local Flight Service Station at 1-800-WX-BRIEF.

That's why I always call, BUT if the FSS doesn't even have the "latest" TFR charted, as was my case, it seems we, the pilots, would still be to blame, because we all know what rolls downhill! I highly doubt Foreflight, Garmin Pilot or ADS-B would take the rap for an uncharted active TFR.

Y'all be careful out there.

I am pretty confident that the calls to FSS are recorded and you would have a good excuse for the incursion during the FAA debrief from that event if you called for an official briefing and not given the TFR details. FAA seems to be clear that FSS is "the source" for info like this.

Seems the bigger issue is monitoring gaurd, if not already talking with ATC. I suspect there is way less drama if ATC can get a hold of you and you quickly vacate the TFR space. The large POTUS TFR's (not the small inner ring) allow you to fly within them for ingress / egress, with some restrictions, as long as you have a squawk code and are talking to ATC. We had to deal with A LOT of these in Chicago during the Obama era. My airport was alway under them.

Larry

[ChiefPilot]

Originally Posted by lr172

I am pretty confident that the calls to FSS are recorded and you would have a good excuse for the incursion during the FAA debrief from that event if you called for an official briefing and not given the TFR details. FAA seems to be clear that FSS is "the source" for info like this.

Seems the bigger issue is monitoring gaurd. I suspect there is way less drama if ATC can get a hold of you and you quickly vacate the TFR space.

Larry

I've heard ATC trying to alert an aircraft that was about to penetrate a TFR multiple times on guard while working (airline; we always have it up on comm 2 during cruise). They *really* try - like attempting several times minutes before the penetration begins AND continuing afterwards while the aircraft is in the TFR providing directions on the quickest way to exit, then finally intercept notice/instructions.

Unfortunately, there is also a bunch of buffoonery on 121.5 that makes keeping tuned all the time annoying. The "meows", the "GAUURD" calls, and more. But there's no denying it's value to helping keep you out of a TFR.

[Dave12]

Originally Posted by MIKE JG

those silly Marine aviators were apparently out practicing their route and remote landing site procedures for a POTUS visit 48 hours from then..

A bad choice of words?

[lr172]

Originally Posted by Dave12

A bad choice of words?

I can't imagine he was making a negative comment about the fine men and women that help to defend our country and way of life. I suspect his comment was targeted at the administrators that find it necessary to require practice flights whose purpose is to bring our politic leaders to golfing events.

Larry

[Low Pass]

Originally Posted by lr172

I can't imagine he was making a negative comment about the fine men and women that help to defend our country and way of life. I suspect his comment was targeted at the administrators that find it necessary to require practice flights whose purpose is to bring our politic leaders to golfing events.

Larry

I fully believe it was a tongue in cheek inter-service branch remark about Marines, or just simple chatting.

As for listening up on guard for these "silly" TFRs, two comments. If you need to be called, it's too late. Second, there's nothing more chilling than hearing a US citizen Air Force pilot threaten to "fire upon" a wayward US citizen GA pilot. Nice!

[catmandu]

Originally Posted by Low Pass

If you need to be called, it's too late.

Not always. Sometimes my tangential passage of a TFR circle trips the "first call" buffer. Always fun to talk on guard with a purpose: "Thanks, USAF, I'm your bogie, I am well aware and will remain clear."

[FlyingBanker]

Interesting that they had to fire flares to get the pilot's attention. In addition to being unaware of the TFR, seems he was also not looking much outside or paying any attention to ADS-B traffic either.