Accurate Ceiling?

[Piggyboy343]

Ok, I'm still here lurking.. should finish my private pilot here in a month or so then it's off plane shopping. I like the Vans RV-12, CSA Sportcruiser and Bristell and I go back and forth between them. One thing that I read different numbers on is the ceiling on the RV-12 with the 912. I see 12,000, 13,200 and have even seen 19,000 even with the 912IS engine.

The useful load is fine and seems like it will work out, I'll be flying by myself most of the time anyway. It'll take a full fuel load, 2 adults and 50 lbs of bags with some to spare which is nice.

I live in Colorado (4500 ft) and sometimes the density altitude is 8500-9000 ft with the heat and that has me worried about performance and that's the only thing I'm a little worried about. I've been training on a 172 with 180 HP fuel injection and it climbs slow (300-400fpm) on 95-100 degree days. I know that the HP per pound for the Vans is better than the Cessna I'm flying but I'm hoping that the Vans isn't just a 'sea level' plane. There's plenty out there and I'm looking constantly for 'the one'. I appreciate any help/input or advice you want to throw my way.

Thanks again!!

[Piper J3]

For what it's worth... Two years ago we have had a E-LSA RV-12 with 912ULS up to 14,500 MSL with two 190# folks on board. Don't remember particulars...

[Ironflight]

We live at 4500’ at our Nevada airpark, and my neighbor is regularly flying his RV-12 two-up in just about any temperature conditions. I did the five-hour phase 1 on it, in the summer, and it performed fine.

Paul

[flion]

I just tossed the latest AOPA rag which had an article on the -12 and its robustness as a trainer. I don't have numbers and this is only anecdotal, but I know of a -12 in AZ that flies up in this area no problem - though I don't know if he is usually solo or not. He said it feels just like any other RV. Our mountains go up near 12.5K and the DA at our 7000 elevation airport on a summer day can go over 13K.

I do remember the AOPA article mentioning the -12 getting a bit tossed in turbulence, but he mentioned flying out of Phoenix, so he's probably talking about mountain winds, which toss anything around. I find my -6A a bit more twitchy than a C-182, but it is also more responsive when I go to make corrections. Also, it's what you're used to. I was terrified of the bumps when I moved from CA flying to Flagstaff, but now I don't notice it much. The difference was highlighted for me when a friend and I flew a Cherokee to ACSpruce West. As we neared the pass at Los Banos, local pireps were for moderate turbulence, so we slowed down and ... nothing much ... What was moderate for them was just a normal afternoon in Flagstaff.

Frankly, I'm hoping to build my own -12 after I finally get the -10 done, and replace the -6A with it as my local flyer.

[RFSchaller]

As I recall I once saw about 13,200 DA in Cruise a couple of summers ago here in AZ. Might have got some more if I’d tried, but it was losing enthusiasm fast for climbing. I think the indicated altitude was 11,500.

[NinerBikes]

Options... buy a light bird, one that sits at 750 to 753# on the scales, and lacks paint.

My friend and I have flown at gross, when the fuel tank was full, to KHND near Las Vegas, late May at 9500 ft. Climb rate was still 300 -350 fpm.

I am certain if my 250# as a passenger was offloaded, 550 to 650 fpm would probably be possible.

Temps were 35C in Henderson, NV when we took off and fiew back to Barstow/Dagget, CA for fuel.

My only worries would be if you fly close to max gross, keep an eye on your oil temps while climbing and do your best to slow down and keep them in the green, not the yellow, at 230 F +. Flying solo, this doesn't seem to be a problem.

The more expensive option would be to buy a stock built E-LSA and then spend the big $$$ and put a 914 UL 115HP Turbo Rotax motor in your RV-12. You'll probably never be lacking for climb rate in CO with that set up. Or build your own RV-12 E-AB and put the 914 UL in it, from the start. Or buy a Big Bore HP kit from Zipper Big Bore, in Elko, NV. 115 HP for about $5000 installed. All it takes is time and money, if you want it, badly enough.

[jrtens]

Can't speak for the ULS but the 12 with the iS does very well in the mountains. I usually cruise at 11500 but getting to 13500 is no problem.

[dpemmons]

I recently flew my -12 from CA to WI and back. My return took me through southern Wyoming / northern Colorado, Utah and Nevada. I had a TurtlePac ferry tank on the passenger seat to extend my range that when full weighs about as much as a standard passenger. At roughly gross I got her up to 12,500' (14,500 DA) in some areas where the height of the terrain let me do it under Sport Pilot rules. She didn't want to go much higher than that though. I regularly fly comfortably at 8500/9500'.

I had no trouble taking off from high DA airports (like 9000') during that trip but she definitely uses more runway than I'm used to.