RV to RV or plane to plane conversation frequency

[RV8JD]

Originally Posted by rv8ch

I'll bet you a nickel there is at least one FAAer on VAF that could probably work with the EAA to get this done. I hope he or she raises their hand!

I hope somebody with some pull will.

Back in early 2017 I sent the following note to both the AOPA and the EAA. AOPA responded quickly that they sent my note on to their government affairs office. Haven't heard anything since from the AOPA. I did not get any response from the EAA. I guess they both have bigger, more glamorous fish to fry.

Dear EAA and AOPA,

"I am a member of both organizations. As you know, there is only one approved VHF frequency that can be used for general air-to-air usage for airplanes (122.75 MHz). This frequency can get quite congested, with pilots using it while flying together and also by pilots reporting their position (in the blind) in local training areas. With the increasing number of pilots that fly together and would like to talk to each other, and larger number of local training areas being designated and used, there is a great need for more frequencies. As you are aware, to avoid the congestion on 122.75, many airplane pilots use frequencies that have been allocated for other uses, and cause problems for the legitimate users of those frequencies.

I would like to request that both organizations begin lobbying the FCC and the FAA for more general use air-to-air frequencies for airplane pilots to use

Sincerely,

Carl N."

[HAL Pilot]

Originally Posted by David Paule

With the 8.33 spacing, there are a lot of owners who not only would need to replace their com radios, they probably just got done paying for ADS-B.

What do we have to do - add about $1,000 per plane to the yearly budget just for mandatory equipment upgrades?

C'mon, folks.... let's not add to our unnecessary burdens.

Dave

David

The idea was to assign current .25 freqs the big guys use to 8.33 and free up .25 freq or three for GA.


:-)

[gmcjetpilot]

I used 121.500 Mhz, seems to always be quiet... kidding. Freqs are congested World wide and why the current 760 channels is insufficient. The 8.33 Khz spacing is to address this and if at FL195 or above you will need it. Even unicom or multicom can be crowded. For air to air 122.75 and 123.45 Mhz are the ones I use. I never had an issue.

What is the #1 FCC rule for transmitting on any frequency? #1 FCC rule thou shall not cause interference.

[Christopher Murphy]

We almost always monitor ?guard ? and if you fly high enough you will hear an amazing amount of unicom and traffic pattern calls on 121.5. Also common is the call to ramp control or operations. Of course you have the virtuous ? guard police? who must key up and correct the person transmitting on guard even though most likely the offender is listening on another freq.

Cm

[airguy]

Originally Posted by Christopher Murphy

We almost always monitor ?guard ? and if you fly high enough you will hear an amazing amount of unicom and traffic pattern calls on 121.5. Also common is the call to ramp control or operations. Of course you have the virtuous ? guard police? who must key up and correct the person transmitting on guard even though most likely the offender is listening on another freq.

Cm

And the occasional "meow". Lately that seems to be the new hot thing.

[jbDC9]

Originally Posted by airguy

And the occasional "meow". Lately that seems to be the new hot thing.

Not really, the meowing and other BS on guard has been going on for years; it's so bad that pretty much anywhere east of the Mississippi River I usually don't monitor guard anymore, just too much stupidity on there.

[GalinHdz]

FWIW: Here in the U.S. 123.450 has been an assigned frequency since the early 1930's. Back then it was actually assigned to Boeing for flight testing in the run up to WWII. It is an international air to air frequency but unauthorized here in the US so 123.450 is a definite NO-NO!

Besides 122.750, 122.850 is assigned for airplane air to air comms. For air to air instruction coordination, 123.300 and 123.500 are assigned. Other assigned VHF-AM frequencies include 123.025 for helicopter and balloon air to air coordination while the Forestry, Fire, CAP and FWS have 123.100 assigned.

You can find a fairly accurate Aviation RF Spectrum Frequency Assignments on this webpage.

[RV8JD]

Originally Posted by GalinHdz

For air to air instruction coordination, 123.300 and 123.500 are assigned.

123.300 and 123.500 are designated for "Aviation instruction, Glider, Hot Air Balloon (not to be used for advisory service)."

Per the AIM, Section 4-1-11, TBL 4-1-3, "Other Frequency Usage Designated by FCC", here:

https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publ...section_1.html

Gilders (air-to-air) and flight schools seem to keep those frequencies busy.

Originally Posted by GalinHdz

Besides 122.750, 122.850 is assigned for airplane air to air comms.

I don't believe that 122.850 is an air-to-air frequency. It is designated as "Aviation Multicom" and the FCC defines "Aviation Multicom" as:

https://www.fcc.gov/wireless/bureau-...round-stations

"Aeronautical multicom stations provide communications between private aircraft and a ground facility for temporary, seasonal, or emergency activities like crop dusting, livestock herding, forest firefighting, aerial advertising, parachute jumping, etc. In some cases, multicom stations may be authorized to serve as unicom stations."

[ronschreck]

I was the Contest Director for the 2019 IAC U.S. National Aerobatic Championships, held in Salina, Kansas. We needed two dedicated frequencies, one for use in the aerobatic box and another for glider operations. I asked our IAC government liaison chairman if there was any chance of getting the FAA or FCC to assign us some frequencies. He told me there was no way to do that and the best course of action would be to randomly select two frequencies and hope for the best! (That's what is done at all regional aerobatic competitions all the time.) So I set out with the determination to knowingly and willingly break the law and pirate a couple of frequencies! I scoured every data base I could find to determine what frequencies were in use within 150 miles of Salina by the FAA and other government and non-government entities and came up with two frequencies, 129.925 for the box and 129.75 for glider operations. I live for the day when someone fixes this situation and finds a way to legally secure frequencies for aerobatic contests, air shows (yes they do just as I did), air-to-air formation flying and maybe even a RV-to-RV communications. I am otherwise a law abiding citizen and I live in fear of the knock on the door. Somebody please find a way to fix this!

[Thermos]

Ron,

I've lived your spectrum pain most of my USAF military/civilian engineering career. Getting any frequency assignment, let alone one in the VHF AM Air band, requires hugely bureaucratic organizations - FAA, FCC and sometimes NTIA - to communicate and coordinate. And spectrum management is hugely political in addition to being hugely bureaucratic, so you can do the math.

The good news is that the FCC is too busy doing other things (like issuing licenses for systems that interfere with GPS) to monitor 24/7 all EM spectrum in the US. I'm not saying that it's ok to operate without a frequency authorization, it's just that your events are small, temporary disturbances in the VHF spectrum. If you do your best to clear a frequency before an event and no one complains about interference with their legally-assigned frequency, you're not super likely to get a cease-and-desist letter.

Hope this eases your fear of the MiB knocking on your door.

Dave