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  #1  
Old 06-12-2020, 07:39 PM
Jake14 Jake14 is offline
 
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Seattle
Posts: 323
Default GPS IFR required equipment

My airplane's currently equipped for ILS/VOR approaches but not IFR-GPS (I have DME and an iPad with traffic and geo-ref approach plates). The expenses for equipment and data subscriptions don't seem worth it for the few times I'd need a GPS approach.

So I was wondering why, if I can fly a VOR approach just using the current plate and a single waypoint (the VOR) why can't I do the same for a GPS approach? Using the plate to fly from waypoint to waypoint and step down the altitudes (especially with geo-ref plates) is fairly easy (I've practiced it a few times) and would be even simpler if I could download the waypoints into the EFIS or iPad, but I can't find a source for that.

So if all I need to fly an approach is "equipment suitable..." what rule would prohibit this?
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  #2  
Old 06-12-2020, 07:44 PM
mikerkba mikerkba is offline
 
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Location: Ely, Nevada
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Default WAAS

For approach use, any GPS location must be identified by an installed (not portable), approved (not non-aviation), WAAS receiver. Even if there were only one waypoint on the whole approach.
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  #3  
Old 06-12-2020, 08:48 PM
Jake14 Jake14 is offline
 
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My 'aviation' EFIS has a WAAS antenna and is non-portable
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  #4  
Old 06-12-2020, 09:43 PM
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Ironflight Ironflight is offline
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Read this - scroll down to what it says about GPS requirements....

https://www.eaa.org/eaa/aircraft-bui...ifr-operations

Paul
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  #5  
Old 06-12-2020, 10:21 PM
BobTurner BobTurner is offline
 
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Location: Livermore, CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake14 View Post

So if all I need to fly an approach is "equipment suitable..." what rule would prohibit this?
To answer this specific question, you need to go to FAR part 1, ‘definitions’. There you will find a long-winded bunch of gibberish about what constitutes “suitable RNAV...” equipment. This is summarized in the reference in Paul’s post, above. But basically it says you can use TSO’d equipment, or get specific faa approval for your equipment. There’s always hope, but so far no one has gotten the latter.

Edit added: and yes, the faa has gone from 1950 when there was no regulatory oversight of part 91 VOR, ADF, or ILS equipment, to 1990 when the GPS regs (to get a TSO, to get IFR approval) cost over a million dollars to demonstrate compliance with.

Last edited by BobTurner : 06-13-2020 at 01:00 AM.
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  #6  
Old 06-13-2020, 07:37 AM
mbert mbert is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Altus, OK
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Sadly, you do not have suitable RNAV approaches unless you have a certified up-to-date IFR GPS system. Most likely you also do not have DME (unless you have a real DME receiver) the iPad counts for nothing except as a situational awareness tool which it does an exceptional job at. Which is the same as any GPS receiver that is not IFR certified.

When you see the words ?DME required? on an instrument approach plate that means you must have a an actual DME receiver or an up-to-date suitable RNAV system that can be used for RNAV substitution to get the DME. The iPad does not count for this capability even if it is incredibly accurate. Which would mean legally you can not fly an approach in actual IFR conditions. You can however practice an instrument approach in VMC if you do not have the required equipment.

So most likely you a have a single or dual VOR/LOC receiver (such as an SL-30) that enables you to legally fly VOR/LOC/ILS approaches using timing or crossing radials to identify points on the approach...yes you have an iPad with plate overlays and you have a pretty good idea where you are on the approach this is much better than the 1970s technology however legally you can only use this for situational awareness.

I would suggest getting a CFII to fly with you an go over again instrument approach plates and required navigation equipment. It?s honestly tricky to go through and with how great the iPad is it really doesn?t make much sense. This would be a great topic to bring up to an organization such as EAA or AOPA to advocate changes to the FARs.

As it stands though you need a certified IFR GPS for RNAV approaches and an actual DME receiver or up-to-date certified IFR GPS for RNAV substitution for DME. It?s a price that doesn?t make sense unless you really want to fly on an IFR day...maybe delay your trip for better weather.

Also I apologize for the long winded post. That?s what happens when a CFII wants to explain something :/
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  #7  
Old 06-13-2020, 09:23 AM
jrs14855 jrs14855 is offline
 
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Location: Lake Havasu City AZ
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Default GPS

Approach certified GPS panel mount receivers are available used in the $1k range. These include Garmin 155XL and KLN89 and 90. These are non WAAS and will take you to minimums similar to VOR approaches.
The key words for these units are IFR and approach certified. These units are not eligible for WAAS upgrade. WAAS provides a glideslope where providedd by the actual approach.
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  #8  
Old 06-13-2020, 03:10 PM
Jake14 Jake14 is offline
 
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Location: Seattle
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Thanks for all the great replies.

PS. I do have a 'real' DME (Bendix). with the marker beacons being phased out, a lot of approaches now require it. Also an INS429 (see pic) ..

I guess my complaint is that my IFR plate subscription, updated every 28 days, has all the current information re. waypoints, altitudes, missed approach procedures, etc. just like my ILS/VOR plates, plus I have a WAAS EFIS yet I'm not allowed to fly the GPS approach without purchasing a very expensive black box plus a monthly subscription to data bases containing data which I already have on my plates.

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Last edited by Jake14 : 06-14-2020 at 02:31 PM.
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  #9  
Old 06-14-2020, 11:59 PM
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gmcjetpilot gmcjetpilot is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake14 View Post
Thanks for all the great replies.

PS. I do have a 'real' DME (Bendix). with the marker beacons being phased out, a lot of approaches now require it. Also an INS429 (see pic) ..

I guess my complaint is that my IFR plate subscription, updated every 28 days, has all the current information re. waypoints, altitudes, missed approach procedures, etc. just like my ILS/VOR plates, plus I have a WAAS EFIS yet I'm not allowed to fly the GPS approach without purchasing a very expensive black box plus a monthly subscription to data bases containing data which I already have on my plates.
Yep you got the picture. TSO'ed GPS and subscription is expensive.

With all your capabilities now you should be OK? However that is up to you. Depends on what approaches you want to use. If it get's to the point there is only a GPS approach at the airport or airports you want to go to... you might have to break the bank.

You say Markers are going away? As long as you can ID the IAF which is an intersection (crossing VOR) or DME you are OK. If it is calling out an "RNAV" or GPS only fix I believe ATC can be an option to ID a fix. I never ran into that.

You can always use your iPad and EFIS for reference but not actual IAP procedures.

I flew for years (long time ago) between two airports with just a VOR/LOC. Later I flew a plane with VOR/LOC/ILS and NDB.... However now I had a handheld Garmin 195 and used it for situational awareness when being vectored, off airway or off initial approach. Totally legal.
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  #10  
Old 06-15-2020, 05:51 AM
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Walt Walt is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmcjetpilot View Post
Yep you got the picture. TSO'ed GPS and subscription is expensive.
Garmin Nav data is $299 year, not that expensive IMO considering everything.
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