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06-09-2020, 09:05 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Dallas area
Posts: 10,762
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanH
The reason for #2 may be based on state aeronautical code. It would be in Alabama, where the code spells out different land requirements and licensing for public and family use.
For reference, here are the relevant code sections. The airport license is granted the by the Dept of Transportation; municipal or county permission, including zoning, is a separate matter.
(b) Private Use Airport that is used primarily by the licensee but available for use by others upon specific invitation of the licensee. To be licensed in a private use category, an airport shall meet without exception the minimum standards of effective runway length of 1800 feet. The minimum usable runway width of 60 feet shall be applied for hard surface runways and a minimum usable runway width of 60 feet shall be applied to turf or sod runways. Invitation of licensee refers to a specific offer and acceptance type of invitation, not an invitation offered to the general public. A holder of a private airport license cannot advertise in a newspaper or other publication that all airplane owners or certain aircraft type owners are invited to be the licensee’s guest at this private airport. An invitation to land on or use the facilities of a private airport must consist of an invitation and a response. Communications between individuals, not a general offer to come to the airport, must exist.
(b) Personal-Use airports are not required to be licensed. A Personal-Use airport is a restricted landing area on private property, designated for the use of the property owner and his, or her immediate family.
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I'm glad Texas doesn't have these kinds of restrictions. My 1500' X 20' runway would never pass muster.
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Mel Asberry, DAR since the last century.
EAA Flight Advisor/Tech Counselor, Friend of the RV-1
Recipient of Tony Bingelis Award and Wright Brothers Master Pilot Award
USAF Vet, High School E-LSA Project Mentor.
RV-6 Flying since 1993 (sold)
<rvmel(at)icloud.com>
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06-09-2020, 09:13 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Ottawa, Ks
Posts: 2,188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanH
The reason for #2 may be based on state aeronautical code. It would be in Alabama, where the code spells out different land requirements and licensing for public and family use.
For reference, here are the relevant code sections. The airport license is granted the by the Dept of Transportation; municipal or county permission, including zoning, is a separate matter.
(b) Private Use Airport that is used primarily by the licensee but available for use by others upon specific invitation of the licensee. To be licensed in a private use category, an airport shall meet without exception the minimum standards of effective runway length of 1800 feet. The minimum usable runway width of 60 feet shall be applied for hard surface runways and a minimum usable runway width of 60 feet shall be applied to turf or sod runways. Invitation of licensee refers to a specific offer and acceptance type of invitation, not an invitation offered to the general public. A holder of a private airport license cannot advertise in a newspaper or other publication that all airplane owners or certain aircraft type owners are invited to be the licensee?s guest at this private airport. An invitation to land on or use the facilities of a private airport must consist of an invitation and a response. Communications between individuals, not a general offer to come to the airport, must exist.
(b) Personal-Use airports are not required to be licensed. A Personal-Use airport is a restricted landing area on private property, designated for the use of the property owner and his, or her immediate family.
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Thanks Dan, I'll dig further at the state level. I've been in contact with the state division of airports and the response I received was private airports are up to the county. I think it was more of an "I don't really know" answer.
I've also been in contact with our county and read through the zoning regulations, I was more familiar with the private airport special use zoning than the Planning Director. He had to revisit the zoning documents I referenced to eventually agree with me. Our county zoning lumps the airports into the same category as Quarry's, shooting clubs, churches, landfills etc.
More education and recreation right......
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RV 7 400 hours and counting
19 donation done
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06-09-2020, 06:58 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Meridian ID, Aspen CO, Okemos MI
Posts: 2,641
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crabandy
Our county zoning lumps the airports into the same category as Quarry's, shooting clubs, churches, landfills etc.
More education and recreation right......
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Welcome to my world! Many of the smaller communities are learning with each project. The more info you have and neighbors who will come to the meetings, the better chances you have. It doesnt hurt to "run into" members of the commission in social places - maybe tough currently, but schmoozing doesnt hurt.
It sounds like you are covering all your bases and have everything figured out so best of luck and Im sure you will love your new airstrip!
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rockwoodrv9a
Williamston MI
O-320 D2A
Awaiting DAR Inspection
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06-09-2020, 07:07 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Simpsonville, SC (SC47)
Posts: 312
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Local County Zoning is the key
If you haven't done so already, you need to study the most current adopted edition of the County Zoning Regulation (or the appropriate jurisdiction having the authority). That will identify what the rules are and what path is open to you and what the hurdles are.
I developed a 21 lot, 117 acre fly-in community airpark (SC47) in 1995-1996 in Greenville County, SC. Learned as I did it and it came out ok in the end, should have done about half a dozen thing differently and it would have come out even better.
Zoning was the key then. Now there are extremely more restrictive land development requirements related to storm water management. I believe this is true across most of the Country. It would probably double the development expenses to comply with today's requirements (in '95 dollars). These storm water management requirements are applicable here to both private single resident properties or PUD's (Planned Unit Developments) with varying levels of standards. Every jurisdiction in each State/County/Municipality will likely have different applicable requirements and restrictions; Counties generally are the determining authority.
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Jeff Warren
Simpsonville, SC (@SC47 > 10nm NW Triple Tree)
1946 Bellanca Cruisair 14-13-2 (73 YRS OLD 8/15/19)
RV14A (N14ZT), Ser#140195
Start 10/11/14
Dues paid 12/1/19 (USArmy 2/67-2/70)
www.mykitlog.com/jeffw@sc47
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06-09-2020, 08:16 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: florida/tennessee
Posts: 9
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I purchased my airstrip in Tennessee (2TN7) Wolfcreek back in 2007. It is on the FAA charts as a private restricted airport where permission is needed to land. The previous owner had to deal with the county zoning people, FAA, and DOT. I am not aware of any restrictions that the county required when they approved it back in 2005. I remember the original owner telling me about the local neighbors being afraid jets would be flying in on this 2400 foot grass strip.
george
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06-09-2020, 08:30 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: SoCal
Posts: 318
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The new RV15 will have a jet and be able to land on a 2400' grass strip
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Ed
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06-09-2020, 09:39 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: Livermore, CA
Posts: 397
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Wow, this is a really cool thread! Are there any good resources describing general steps to build your own private runway? I always imagined one day when I win the lottery, I'd buy some land out in the middle of nowhere and build my dream 4000 ft. X 100 ft paved lighted runway. But I have no clue where I'd even start. Permits, zoning, legal wrangling all seem to be county-specific. You wouldn't even know which office to write to until you found a lot. Then there's how to actually do the work, clear out trees and boulders, level the soil, reinforce it, run electricity out, etc. ****, I wouldn't even know how many acres you would need to have in order to safely fit an airstrip. Where do you figure out how to do all this stuff?
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Ryan Drake
Livermore, CA
https://stiletto.smugmug.com/RV7
Donated 12/16/2019
RV-7A (N12VD): Empennage and wing kits complete minus fiberglass, fuselage and wiring complete. Canopy complete minus fiberglass. Waiting for the engine to come!
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06-10-2020, 12:06 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Depends on when you ask!
Posts: 9
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If you don?t mind sending me your contact info I?ll see if I can help.
I?ve also talked to the state aviation dept, (Dave if I recall...) my understanding/impression was more that the state actually didn?t have any rules as opposed to him not knowing about it. As far as changes to the conditions I would say it is all Franklin Cnty?s draft and see if you can negotiate alternative language. There is history with the land OWI was built on, but it?s been long enough it may not be a factor in the county?s decision process anymore. If you don?t know about that I?ll share what I was told.
In Shawnee county, my understanding is that a non-pilot owns the runway at Sunset and strictly sold lots. Not sure any lot owners that might have the history on that strip would be too helpful. Buena Tera was built by Rudy & Mike. They would be helpful if you wanted to pick their brain. I can get you contact info for them.
I?m aware of someone in Douglas Cnty that couldn?t get it approved and as a result has a really long driveway. Then someone else who did get it approved, but I think he?s in Miami Cnty, I?d have to check.
I?m going to be starting my strip in Coffee which doesn?t have any zoning at all! 😀
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06-10-2020, 05:41 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Kansas
Posts: 168
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Andy,
Congrats on the purchase. I hope you can get #2 sorted out, I'm one of those who would like to "stop by"!
Fred
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Dues Paid for 2020
RV-14
Empennage Complete (including fiberglass)
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Fuse joined and working on painting interior
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06-10-2020, 06:05 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Fredericksburg, Virginia
Posts: 286
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Good for you
Quote:
Originally Posted by crabandy
It's really no surprise I'm looking to the VAF community for help with this, throughout my build and beyond the people and advice have really made things happen for me.
I rushed my "special use zoning permit" to the county just before they shut their doors due to the Covid several months ago. Depending on weather/farmer/contractor I would like to break ground next fall through next summer.
We purchased our property to build a house, airstrip and hangar on. Now we just need to make it happen. I've planned out the runway with a dirt contractor who used to be on the county planning commission and was also approved by the airport coffee drinkers association. I'm attempting to do this right for the long term, I want this runway to be there for a LONG time and need the paperwork to be in order.
It's now happening fast, the letters to the neighbors already went out and the commission meeting is next week. We've already delivered my wife's famous homemade cinnamon rolls and visited with all those affected by the zoning change except 2 which are out of town. I think this portion on the zoning application is a "go."
I'm not a lawyer but the initial planning commission findings are very favorable:
But Conditions 2, 4 seem rather restrictive, the rest I would comply with 150%.
I'm not too worried about 4, depending on their interpretation of "initiated and utilized" I can bribe a friend with a Cub to land anytime or drag some dirt with my old Allis WD.
Condition 2 worries me. A landing strip just for "family members" doesn't seem reasonable, I'm sure I don't have to explain this the the VAF people. One adjacent neighbor has already checked into flight training and his brother in law flys a Pa-32 around. I'm not sure if a logical explanation will suffice to the county or if I need to get a lawyer. I'ld really like to handle this on my own, partly $$ but mostly because I don't think any local lawyer would have the proper knowledge and definitely not the heart of the matter in mind.
A restriction to just family members seems unreasonable for a private airstrip, I'ld like to think I have a lot of airplane friends that would want to stop by. Realistically that's a handful a year, maybe doubling the 3-6 operations a month on average.
I would definitely appreciate thoughts and advice from those that have gone before me.
Thanks!
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Crabandy,
Glad you've taken this step.
Hope it works out great.
One question; how long are you planning on making it?
Daddyman
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