Heated Pitot necessary?

[rongawer]

I have a heated pitot (GAP 26) in the left wing on my RV-12, which is fully IFR capable. If you have any thought to fly in any semblance of IMC, then you should consider a heated pitot. I have encountered trace icing and was thankful for the protection provided.

The cost is insignificant, especially when compared to the safety measure it provides against ice blockage. Although it is not a required component, I recommend having one for any IFR capable aircraft.

[Piper J3]

I?m naive when it comes to IFR? A year ago I flew my 12 on a three-leg flight plan under the hood with no outside visual reference. I used Dynon D180, Garmin 296, and mini iPad running ForeFlight. I do not have autopilot, so flying was done by hand, and I must say it was quite a chore. Convection during the heat of the day made for a wrestling match in such a light airplane.

So, a couple of questions? when I see RV-12 equipped for IFR that must also include autopilot to help fly straight/level? I often hear such-n-such airplane is good IFR platform ? is RV-12 considered good for IFR or better used only for IFR training?

Just curious? seems like heated pitot would be least of my problems.

[BobTurner]

Originally Posted by Piper J3

I?m naive when it comes to IFR? A year ago I flew my 12 on a three-leg flight plan under the hood with no outside visual reference. I used Dynon D180, Garmin 296, and mini iPad running ForeFlight. I do not have autopilot, so flying was done by hand, and I must say it was quite a chore. Convection during the heat of the day made for a wrestling match in such a light airplane.

So, a couple of questions? when I see RV-12 equipped for IFR that must also include autopilot to help fly straight/level? I often hear such-n-such airplane is good IFR platform ? is RV-12 considered good for IFR or better used only for IFR training?

Just curious? seems like heated pitot would be least of my problems.

?Equipped for IFR? might mean the legal minimums, no autopilot. An autopilot should never be necessary for a short flight - it?s function is to relieve fatigue and keep you sharp.
IMHO no RV is a ?great? ifr platform. They?re too much fun to fly vfr, which means they?re nimble and not overly stable. A good ifr platform is very stable to the point of being a boring, truck like handling vfr.

[R7237]

I very much appreciate everyones input on this. To answer specific questions, I do not see the RV-12 as an IFR airplane, but is a low cost per hour flier that seems perfect for building time behind the stick. As I have a private pilots license, seems like a good time builder for additional certificates. Although not required, based on the input from this post, I am planning on using a heated pitot system. Yes, the plane will have an autopilot. I wish I would have built the RV-12 10 years ago and used it to get my pilots license.

[rongawer]

Originally Posted by BobTurner

?Equipped for IFR? might mean the legal minimums, no autopilot. An autopilot should never be necessary for a short flight - it?s function is to relieve fatigue and keep you sharp.
IMHO no RV is a ?great? ifr platform. They?re too much fun to fly vfr, which means they?re nimble and not overly stable. A good ifr platform is very stable to the point of being a boring, truck like handling vfr.

While I agree with Bob that an autopilot does help relieve fatigue and keep you sharp, I'm in the Richard Collins school of thinking in that you should always have two pilots if your are flying IFR, which means that if you're the only human pilot in the airplane while flying, the autopilot is the second one. Piper J3 states that task of flying IFR by yourself well - that "it was quite a chore". Anyone who's flown for 3+ hours in IMC knows how drained you are both mentally and physically at the end of that flight.

I use the AP for aviating, which gives me the time to navigate and communicate, which are key components of IFR flying. See How safe is Single Pilot IFR?. My personal limit is that I won't fly IFR without a properly working AP. I also believe RV's make good IFR platforms; and while an RV-12 doesn't come anywhere the "sitting on the couch" stability of my old Baron, IMO they are stable - which I qualify as able to hold a heading and altitude with minor inputs. However, they are very responsive and reactive - we should discuss separately.

The OP asks about a 12 having a heated probe, and I agree that it should have one if the intention is IFR flight "into IMC". If you can clearly state that the aircraft will only be used for IFR flight training in VMC conditions, then there's no need for the probe, but if you truly expect to fly the aircraft IFR with idea that you will need to navigate in IMC for a cross-country flight, then you should have a heated probe.

[rongawer]

Originally Posted by R7237

To answer specific questions, I do not see the RV-12 as an IFR airplane

I respectfully disagree. I ran a report on my logbook and find that I have 113 instrument approaches along with 23.1 hours of actual instrument conditions out of 412.3 hours PIC in my RV-12 over that last 22 months. Most of those approaches were done simply descending through a 2000' tops/1000' base marine layer, but many of them came at the end of a 2-3 hour flight performed IFR, with several done to minimums at night, and some with rain added for fun.

It's my experience that the RV-12 is a very capable IFR aircraft - when properly equipped.

[R7237]

Originally Posted by rongawer

I respectfully disagree. I ran a report on my logbook and find that I have 113 instrument approaches along with 23.1 hours of actual instrument conditions out of 412.3 hours PIC in my RV-12 over that last 22 months. Most of those approaches were done simply descending through a 2000' tops/1000' base marine layer, but many of them came at the end of a 2-3 hour flight performed IFR, with several done to minimums at night, and some with rain added for fun.

It's my experience that the RV-12 is a very capable IFR aircraft - when properly equipped.

Thank you for taking the time to comment. As I am also putting a ULPower 350iS on the 12, I am glad to get your input. Based on the thread, "properly equipped" means 1) Heated Pitot 2) Autopilot and 3) TSO'd navigation source with a 4) sign off on the pitot static system.

Given the GPS interface on the AFS5600 is WAAS resolution, I was thinking about installing a VAL NAV 2KR for VOR/ILS/GS. I realize a Garmin GPS 175 would suffice, but given the EFIS GPS is fine, adding the NAV radio is probably $2k vs $5k. Seems strange to add the GPS 175 and not get any additional functionality other than "I have a TSO'd nav source". Opinions? Might be that the Val NAV2KR is not TSO'd,, I have not started down that research thread yet.

[h&jeuropa]

While pitot heat is nice, it is not as necessary today as it was 20-30 years ago because today we have GPS which will provide a "ball park" airspeed (and altitude) even if the pitot is iced over. Prior to GPS you were out of luck!

Jim Butcher

[NinerBikes]

Originally Posted by h&jeuropa

While pitot heat is nice, it is not as necessary today as it was 20-30 years ago because today we have GPS which will provide a "ball park" airspeed (and altitude) even if the pitot is iced over. Prior to GPS you were out of luck!

Jim Butcher

How accurate is a WAAS enabled Dynon GPS-2020 receiver these days, that is ADSB Extended Squitter Out Compliant with the 261 XSPNDER system? It's my understanding that it updates your location 5x per second.

[AlpineYoda]

There are a lot of comments above that say "I've never needed pitot heat", but not one that says you should NOT build it in.

If you are in the middle of building and running a wire to provide heat is relatively simple (as opposed to trying to retrofit wires through a finished wing), I can't think of a reason not to do it.

I'm building a -10 that I plan to have IFR capable (I am instrument rated already). While I hope I never get into icing conditions in IMC, I am absolutely including pitot heat in the event that I do get into some bad stuff. The complexity and weight of a couple of extra wires and a switch are minimal.