Practicing Rolling [Half] Circles

[petercavallo]

Originally Posted by 1flyingyogi

I appreciate the tips, Eric. Yes, I realized that (about pulling more positive than negative). I was cheating b/c it's not comfortable for me to push too much negative - especially the switching back and forth between negative and positive is really uncomfortable. But I'm getting better at tolerating it. And the rudder authority is horrible in the RV compared to aerobatic mounts like my Laser (which is sold as of today) or a Pitts. These planes also handle more neutrally, whether you're on the negative or positive portions of the maneuver. For the RV, when positive, very little stick force is required, but while negative, I almost have to use both hands to push and the rudder requires so much force, I feel like my legs are getting a work out, and still the nose hardly moves (while moving through the level portions, inverted or upright).

I know I have LOTS to work on - roller are pretty new to me. I don't plan on ever competing at that level anyway. I'm just having fun and seeing what I can do with an RV.

On another note, do you guys feel comfortable snapping in the RV? I feel like it's abusing the plane and I'm afraid something might break if it's done too often. How about snaps on the down-line (like right after a hammer when airspeed is low)?

Hi Brian I too would be uncomfortable snapping the RV so I do not . I suspect the structure is not up to it . I think I did see the highly modified RV4 with the big ailerons with tail braces but memory is old Ron may know

[ronschreck]

Originally Posted by 1flyingyogi

Jerry, too bad you're not closer to me, otherwise I'd love to be a partner with you in something. Extras are too expensive for me though. I was thinking maybe an Eagle would be good. Or if I had $200k to spend on a plane, I would buy this beauty tomorrow! Just dreaming out loud.

https://barnstormers.com/classified-...ml?catid=15867

For a few pennies more you could have this brute!

https://www.barnstormers.com/cat_sea...e=&price__lte=

[ronschreck]

Originally Posted by petercavallo

Hi Brian I too would be uncomfortable snapping the RV so I do not . I suspect the structure is not up to it . I think I did see the highly modified RV4 with the big ailerons with tail braces but memory is old Ron may know

Here's the article you are referring to:

[RV8Squaz]

Originally Posted by 1flyingyogi

Thanks for your comments Jerry and Ron. Although I very much enjoy aerobatics, I still consider the RV my "primary" plane and when I had the Laser (or whatever acro mount I may end up with in the future), will always be just the "optional" plane. But I don't have to preach to you guys what a great all-around plane the RV is - you know that. Haha. Well, I guess if money were no object, an Sbach or Extra could do very well replace my RV.

Jerry, too bad you're not closer to me, otherwise I'd love to be a partner with you in something. Extras are too expensive for me though. I was thinking maybe an Eagle would be good. Or if I had $200k to spend on a plane, I would buy this beauty tomorrow! Just dreaming out loud.

https://barnstormers.com/classified-...ml?catid=15867

I know, it would be great if could partner. The airplanes I?ve been looking are late 90?s - mid-2000?s Extra 300L. They?ve been in the $200-250K range making it much more affordable as a partnership.. After much deliberation, I thought it might be easier to get the airplane first and then look for a partner. Almost bought one in January, but in the end I couldn?t bite the bullet. Glad I didn?t considering the current economic situation!

I know the airplane above and it?s owner; both very nice. He?s been doing very well in Advanced with it. But just like me, he wants to move into a 6 cylinder. He?s looking at the MX or MX2, which is basically an improved Giles with 6 jugs. I got a ride in an MX2 once and it is truly incredible.

The Velox Ron pointed out above looks to be a remarkable airplane and very well built. There aren?t very many flying. I would like to hold out for something more tried and true. However, any airplane purchase is currently on hold until we see what the future holds.

[RV8Squaz]

Originally Posted by Boyd Birchler

We aerobatic competition types call these "rollers". Flying a circular path over the ground and placing one to four, equally spaced continuous rolls, on that circular line. This if done to perfection requires no hesitations in rate of turn over the ground or rate of roll. If it is a 4 roll 360 degree roller each half roll should complete every 45 degrees around the circle, and finally all competition rolls are slow rolls,no barrel what so ever.

These are seen in intermediate (not very often), advanced and unlimited competition categories. They are called "the black hole of point deduction" because there are so many places to make mistakes. A by the book well judged roller is hard to get a score of 7 out of 10.

To perform a roller to competition standards a inverted fuel and oil system is a must.

Let?s see...

Two variations in roll rate, -2 pts
A couple of variations in turn rate, -2 pts
A lengthy pause between roll reversals, -1 pt
A 100? altitude loss, -1 pt

The average guy just got a 4 out of 10, unless there was an inadvertent... snap roll! Now it?s an HZ (Hard Zero).

[1flyingyogi]

Too many cool airplanes... not enough money. LOL.

It'd be nice to have a flying club with different types of aircraft and share costs.

Ron Rapp, totally agree on the affordability and bang for the buck of an S1. Ron Schreck, thanks for that RV article.

[ronrapp]

Originally Posted by control

I would recommend skipping snaps in a Decathlon with the old wooden wing, with the newer wing it is fine. We had to buy new wings after the nails backed out to many times...

I flew a Super D with the metal wings for two seasons of IAC competition and even it had issues along the ribs ? and that was without doing any snaps in it. It?s surprisingly easy to over-G that airplane. It doesn?t just stall if you pull a bit too hard the way the S2 or EA300 would.

To be fair, that Super D was also used for a LOT of aerobatic training. Still, I would recommend snaps in it. A bunch of years ago, Dave Watson wrote a good article in Sport Aerobatics about why that model should not be snapped. Of course, I then saw him fly an Intermediate (or maybe it was Advanced) sequence in his own Super Decathlon after losing the canopy off his Yak at Paso Robles, so....

?Ron

[sandifer]

Originally Posted by ronrapp

I flew a Super D with the metal wings for two seasons of IAC competition and even it had issues along the ribs — and that was without doing any snaps in it. It’s surprisingly easy to over-G that airplane. It doesn’t just stall if you pull a bit too hard the way the S2 or EA300 would.

To be fair, that Super D was also used for a LOT of aerobatic training. Still, I would recommend snaps in it. A bunch of years ago, Dave Watson wrote a good article in Sport Aerobatics about why that model should not be snapped. Of course, I then saw him fly an Intermediate (or maybe it was Advanced) sequence in his own Super Decathlon after losing the canopy off his Yak at Paso Robles, so....

—Ron

Yep, many a metal-wing Super D has experienced fuel leaks due to fuel sloshing from snaps, which cracked the tank/baffles over time. The tank design was updated at some point on late models, but I'd still be conservative snapping them, limit fuel quantity, and avoid too many of them.

[RV3bpilot]

Wow, I am amazed at your flying skill. I am too chicken to roll my aircraft. I did do spins but that was just for the testing phase.
Great control Brian...

[mattsrv7]

I've snapped my -4 both level and at the top of loops for an avalanche.

Here's a video of my first -4 acro flight a couple of years ago. No inverted systems and a little rusty.
https://youtu.be/bYtCxTVg8qM first snap at 1:05

Eagle-eyed folks may notice a little fuel leaking past the o-ring on the gas cap. It was replaced after that flight.

Done within the recommended speeds, it isn't that hard on the airplane. I don't personally do it often but it is good know how to do anything the airplane is capable of.

The thing about a -4 is it may not be a great plane to learn snaps in. If you get the speeds a little wrong it wouldn't be hard to put a lot of load on the airframe.