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07-25-2007, 06:47 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Dallas, TX (ADS)
Posts: 2,180
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Paul Thomas
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I've found LSA renting in the $80 to $90/hr range (wet, of course). Rented a Katana this weekend for some mountain flying training at $100/hr. LSA rates don't seem to be that unreasonable.
TODR
__________________
Doug "The Other Doug Reeves" Reeves
CTSW N621CT - SOLD but not forgotten
Home Bases LBX, BZN
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07-25-2007, 07:40 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 497
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They ARE selling...
According to Aero-News Network Tuesday - over 400 orders have been received since Sunday.
I have no doubts that the 162 will succeed. Flight schools across the US have been waiting a successor to the 152 for, what - 30 years or so? There is a huge pent up demand. And while there are some foreign planes selling - I think that the brand name "CESSNA" - and everything that it stands for will quickly overtake any but the strongest import.
Less than half the cost of a 172, roomier and faster than a 152. Just have to deal with the weight issue...
Remember - it is more than an LSA. This is a TRAINER and will be used for that - whether its an LSA student or a PPL student.
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07-25-2007, 12:02 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Presidio, Texas
Posts: 96
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by mcsteatlh
I'm sure all LSA's are going to meet the max speed limits so you can't use speed to sell the plane. McStealth
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Thank you for the discussion.
I have to differ with you regarding the expecatation of equal performance from all LSA's. A lot of manufacturers will deceptively claim to meet the max speed limit, but few will actually get there. So far it looks like Van will produce a kit that will meet the speed limit without pants or streamlining details - and one airplane will be documented to meet the requirements for Sport Pilots. Perhaps one and only one RV-12 will be built that way. If Van decides to produce a factory-built S-LSA, or a 90% kit Ex-LSA version, you could reasonably expect those to fly within the speed limit. But many of us prefer the flexibility of the experimental amateur-built (ExAB) category. An RV-12 built and certified as ExAB may exceed the Sport Pilot speed limit with virtually no fear of enforcement action, which would be all but impossible anyway.
Note for newbies: ExAB is a specific type of airworthiness certificate.
A workable understanding of the Light Sport/Sport Pilot rule and the various types of airworthiness certificates leads me to belive that speed will still be a big selling point for the newest RV.
Chase Snodgrass
Presidio, TX
http://flybigbend.com
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07-25-2007, 12:29 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 497
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I agree with Westexflyboy -
I am looking at the RV-12 as a first kit as I anticipate it will be somewhat less expensive, and a quicker/easier build than her bigger sisters. I full expect that when she has pants on she will easily cruise at 120 kts +. I have a full PPL and don't intend on registering it as an LSA. She'll be built light - day/night VFR. Hopefully I'll get some good years of flying out of her while I work on the next project.
DJ
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07-25-2007, 01:14 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Kingwood
Posts: 80
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PPL only?
Quote:
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Originally Posted by westexflyboy
Thank you for the discussion.
I have to differ with you regarding the expecatation of equal performance from all LSA's. A lot of manufacturers will deceptively claim to meet the max speed limit, but few will actually get there. So far it looks like Van will produce a kit that will meet the speed limit without pants or streamlining details - and one airplane will be documented to meet the requirements for Sport Pilots. Perhaps one and only one RV-12 will be built that way. If Van decides to produce a factory-built S-LSA, or a 90% kit Ex-LSA version, you could reasonably expect those to fly within the speed limit. But many of us prefer the flexibility of the experimental amateur-built (ExAB) category. An RV-12 built and certified as ExAB may exceed the Sport Pilot speed limit with virtually no fear of enforcement action, which would be all but impossible anyway.
Note for newbies: ExAB is a specific type of airworthiness certificate.
A workable understanding of the Light Sport/Sport Pilot rule and the various types of airworthiness certificates leads me to belive that speed will still be a big selling point for the newest RV.
Chase Snodgrass
Presidio, TX
http://flybigbend.com
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ExAB: can a sport pilot ticket fly that classification?
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07-25-2007, 02:28 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Presidio, Texas
Posts: 96
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Speed Rules!
Quote:
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Originally Posted by mcsteatlh
ExAB: can a sport pilot ticket fly that classification?
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The rules for Sport Pilots do not address airworthiness certificates, so yes, a Sport Pilot can fly an ExAB, or any other experimental type, or any standard category aircraft that meets the definition of a light sport aircraft (i.e. 1320 lbs max gross weight, two seats or less, etc.) I don't foresee the FAA coming to your airport to do a scientific flight test to determine the maximum speed of your homebuilt airplane.
The logisitics of proving a speed violation, and the impossible nature of that undertaking is apparent. This is why the EAA, in their official comments prior to passage of the rule, recommended the maximum speed provision be stricken from the rule, and why many of us think that part of the rule will eventually go away.
Chase Snodgrass
Presidio, TX
http://flybigbend.com
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07-25-2007, 02:42 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Dallas, TX (ADS)
Posts: 2,180
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by westexflyboy
I have to differ with you regarding the expecatation of equal performance from all LSA's. A lot of manufacturers will deceptively claim to meet the max speed limit, but few will actually get there.
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Absolutely. I've flown in one LSA that did 125kt ISA at slightly above 0' MSL DA and also one that was doing well to make 95kt. The claims are just that - claims. Fly it yourself, but pay attention to DA and aircraft loading - remember that 130 lb under MGTW is about 10%.
We plan on and always get 110kt in the CT, regardless of DA and load. If there's nowhere we have to be, we sometimes slow down to 100kt for a quieter, most economical and, if it's bumpy, smoother ride. We were seeing 110kt ISA and 125kt TAS at ~9000' DA at less than WOT this weekend over Montana.
I suppose I'd be happy with 110kt cruise out of a LSA. Climb of 1000fpm at SL and at least 500 ft at 8000' DA. 550 lb useful load. Hopefully the RV-12 will deliver - I would think so.
TODR
__________________
Doug "The Other Doug Reeves" Reeves
CTSW N621CT - SOLD but not forgotten
Home Bases LBX, BZN
Last edited by the_other_dougreeves : 07-25-2007 at 06:34 PM.
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07-25-2007, 04:31 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah
Posts: 16
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'Van' Talks About His RV12 LSA Prototype
On url http://www.aero-tv.net/index.cfm "Van" talks about his RV-12. Nice video from Oshkosh.
Rob
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07-25-2007, 08:05 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Fort Myers, FL
Posts: 483
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by the_other_dougreeves
I've found LSA renting in the $80 to $90/hr range (wet, of course). Rented a Katana this weekend for some mountain flying training at $100/hr. LSA rates don't seem to be that unreasonable.
TODR
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The number given is from a flight school that's getting 6 of them and it's not an official number. I hope they'll come in lower, but I somehow doubt it.
As far as the glass panel weight, I thought that glass panels added weight as a general rule. A G1000 172SP weights more than a steam guage 172SP and that's what I based my theory on. Is the G300 that light? Does an LSA really need a 6 pack?
LSA market is olders folks, I don't know how much they like computers. The plane is selling so it's not a terrible move, but how much more market could they take?
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07-25-2007, 08:19 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 155
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Paul Thomas
LSA market is olders folks, I don't know how much they like computers.
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Good point but if I were starting over today, I would want to learn a glass panel from the get go. Us older folks are just going to have to do some re-learning.
__________________
Rob Davis
Denver, CO
RV-12... here I come!
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