Garmin Panel Decisions Help

[mfleming]

Originally Posted by fl-mike

You said GTR225, but it looks like you have a GTR200 in the panel picture, which is what I am going with and meets your needs.
GNX375 will give you an IFR GPS and ADS-B in-out transponder.

So, I’d lose the standalone transponder and move the comm to the bottom of your stack.

Looks good otherwise.

Correct GTR 200.
Edited the original post to reflect that.
Also the original transponder is a GTX 345 made that edit in the original post

[mfleming]

So what I have learned is that the GNX 375 will do nicely for the GPS navigator and transponder. I downloaded Garmin's GPS Trainer and I like the transponder display with ident button...should be very nice. This saves $2000 compared to the GPS 175 navigator and GTX 345 transponder.

It looks like if I want a GTR 20R remote #2 comm I'll need an audio panel. But if I use only one comm, I can save quite a bit of money and complexity.

I'm wondering how those built-in radio intercoms really work though?

Also, It's my understanding that the GNX 375 GPS info will port to the G3X for display...correct?

[BobTurner]

Originally Posted by mfleming

It looks like if I want a GTR 20R remote #2 comm I'll need an audio panel. But if I use only one comm, I can save quite a bit of money and complexity.

I'm wondering how those built-in radio intercoms really work though?

Also, It's my understanding that the GNX 375 GPS info will port to the G3X for display...correct?

I think you need the arinc module to get full functionality out of the 375 gps.
As discussed several posts back, a full blown audio panel makes operation smoother if you frequently switch between coms. OTOH if #2 is mostly a backup, you can get away with a good intercom (with lots of unswitched inputs) and a panel switch to go between #1 and #2. You might be able to just use the built in intercom (and a panel switch), or you may need a cheap mixer, depending on what capability you want.

[jliltd]

Originally Posted by mfleming

I'm wondering how those built-in radio intercoms really work though?

First off go for the GTR 200B. Why settle for the non-bluetooth GTR 200 when you can go "B"? I am glad you really weren't talking about a GTR 225 as typo'd in your first post. The 225 costs more without the feature set of the 200. The 225 is for the poor sods stuck in the type certified crowd (I own both experimental and certified aircraft). Although Garmin just released a PMA'd version of the 200B (dash 41 part number) that costs the higher price of the 225.

As to your question: While intercoms buit into VHF comms have always had a legacy of spotty and sub-par performance the GTR 200B is a whole different animal. The built-in intercom in the GTR 200B is the hands-down best integrated stereo intercom available today in any new panel VHF transceiver. It totally rocks and is as good as the top of the line audio panels and stand-alone ICS boxes like the PSE PM 3000. In many instances better. For a single comm installation there is no reason to have an audio panel when we have an option the likes of the GTR 200B. The GTR 200B doesn't provide switching like an audio panel but who needs it when it has standby frequency monitoring, Bluetooth and automatic full stereo intercom with 3D ICS station and ATC frequency spacial audio. The GTR 200B also fully integrates with G3X touch over the CAN Bus. Pure simplicity with all the niceties.

I like how you are leaning towards the GNX 375 with a GTR 200B. Perfect set up saving lots of space and screen real estate on the GDUs.

You definitely want the dedicated autopilot control panel. VFR or IFR it makes operation a breeze compared to menu window mess on the GDU. A whole lot less distraction in the air.

I like the layout. Everyone has positioning preferences and I am with the autopilot on top of the stack followed by the GNX 375 crowd. Just like your last layout.

You are going to love flying that panel.

Jim

[rockbottom]

A lot of good suggestions on your panel, but one that may have been overlooked was mentioned by Cajunwings in post #8 involving a second AHRS. I have an all Garmin IFR panel in my 8 (single GDU with two AHRS, GTN 650, and a G5). The G5 has its own internal AHRS, GPS antenna, and can drive the autopilot. It can also double as a backup HSI. I'm assuming with two GDU's in your panel, you will also have two GSU25 AHRS units. If you intend to fly IFR someday I strongly recommend a third (provided by the G5) as a tie breaker in case #1 and #2 AHRS don't get along with each other. I've had problems from day one with my two GSU's due to vibration (which Garmin has been very helpful with), but which manifests itself in the form of heading and occasional attitude miscompare messages. Sometimes the heading will drift; other times the attitude tumbles. Not a problem when VFR, but in IMC it can present a real problem. The G5 however, has been rock solid. In an unlikely worst case scenario, a third GSU as a tie breaker could save your life. If you haven't already, it would be to your advantage to delve into the G3X pilot's guide and review the failure modes of the GSU's and how you would deal with them as you plan your panel.

J. Baker

[g3xpert]

Originally Posted by mfleming

I'm wondering how those built-in radio intercoms really work though?

Also, It's my understanding that the GNX 375 GPS info will port to the G3X for display...correct?

You've received some great guidance and recommendations from several Garmin-experience users in this thread. I will just add a couple notes based on many conversations I have discussing these options to homebuilders:

1. The intercom in the GTR200(B) is fantastic. It serves up to 2 seats and is a crystal clear digital interface, and the bluetooth functionality of the GTR200B model will allow you to connect to a mobile device for music or that phone call if you need to pick up an IFR clearance at a non-towered airport.

2. The GNX375 is a great choice for your needs at a great value. While it may be a little more cost now, it will save you $$ in the future vs equipping with an ADSB In/Out transponder now and adding an IFR GPS navigator later. The GNX375 interfaces great with the G3X Touch for all of your flight plan and waypoint information/viewing on the larger GDU screen.

You will need a GAD29 installed (ARINC 429 interface) to utilize the IFR capability of the GNX375.

When moving to a 2-COM setup, you will need to look at the audio panel option such as the GMA245/245R to prodive the switching inputs between those radios. There are other 3rd party switching options out there, but keep in mind this could be a critical point to introduce unwelcome noise into the audio system.

On the AHRS discussion, with single-screen G3X/GSU ADHRS, I absolutely recommend a G5 for a backup instrument. This will not only provide backup functionality of the autopilot (with GMC autopilot controller intstalled), but will provide it's air data to the GDU screen in the case of a GSU failure. I consider this optional with a dual GSU installation, but still nice to have for the value of the G5.

Best Regards,

Brad

[jamesrw2002]

G3Xpert hit the nail on the head, and it seems like you came to the same conclusion that I did regarding GPS175/GNX375. My original plan was to go GPS175 and then a GTX35 transponder. Changing to the GNX375 saved me a boat load of money AND added IFR capabilities to my airplane (my original plan was to do the GPS175 down the road.)

The G3x and the GNX375 will communicate/share info. You can tune the 375 through the G3X if you want. My preference is to save the screen space and tune the XPDR on the unit itself though.

The G5 is a great investment as well... if you're already doing it, the added value you get from it is worth the pocket change (compared to everything else you are buying here..) It will give you a back up AHARS as well for the extra warm and fuzzy at night/occasional IMC session.

Someone mentioned up there that having the actual A/P panel is a must. I will echo that.. but it looks like you already have it planned in your drawing. in actual IMC, single pilot - feeling the knob/button is key... pun intended.

I would absolutely go with the GMA-245 versus the 245R. I got the 245R because space is a premium in the RV-4; but I do wish I had the valuable real estate back that it takes up on the top row of my display. That said, it's kind of cool what they have done with audio panels lately. Being able to put my passenger on their own music source is going to be wonderful during those long cross country with the lady friend.

When you start tearing in to this - you will find it is best to do it ONCE rather than to plan to add functionality in the future. This is a big undertaking but worth every drop of sweat and penny.

I love my panel, I wouldnt change it for the world.

Edit: one other thing, if you're adding the GMA-245(r) you can just go with the GTR-200 and drop the "b". The GMA-245/R will bring bluetooth functionality to your panel.

[n982sx]

I like all of the replies. My take is...

No need for a second com and the built in intercom is great.

No need for a nav radio. Carry a hand held with VOR capability if it makes you feel better (it's your backup com as well).

Do need a second display and ADAHRS so a G5 hits the spot.

Do get the AP controller. Very useful and if your PFD fails, it is how you use the AP with the G5.

I bought my equipment 4 years ago so the new Nav and Transponder units were not available, but my functionality is much like what you seem to be heading for.

[mfleming]

This has been the most productive thread for me ever

All the great ideas really helped to solidify my panel decision. The estimate from SteinAir came in this morning. I may have to defer the second G3X to later but I'm hoping not.

So here are my thoughts on what I am installing and why.

• G3X EFIS - Well that was a given but it looks like I can swing the second one. If not, the wiring will be in and a plate over the cutout.
  
• G5 EFIS - That's a new addition to the panel. The reason for adding the G5 is I wanted a second AHRS but it wasn't THAT much more to to just use the G5 as the redundant AHRS unit instead of bolting one on the back of the second G3X.
  
• GNX 375 GPS Navigator/Transponder - Saves bucks from having a separate transponder and GPS navigator. Plus is looks like a great unit.
  
• GTR 200B Comm/Intercom/Bluetooth - Decided on a single comm. This is a sweet unit and saves the expense and complexity of a audio panel.
  
• GMC 507 Autopilot controller - Im convinced (didn't take much) a dedicated autopilot controller is a must have.

My plan is to wire this myself. I'll order all the connector kits and wire from SteinAir. They have a new product...Plexiglas cutouts of all the behind the panel components. These are the proper dimension, mounting holes and plug locations. This will be great when trying to figure out the sub-panel puzzle.

Looking forward to this phase of building

[jliltd]

You nailed it. That's exactly how I would do it starting from scratch.