|
-
POSTING RULES

-
Donate yearly (please).
-
Advertise in here!
-
Today's Posts
|
Insert Pics
|

03-15-2020, 10:51 AM
|
 |
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Peachtree City, Ga
Posts: 1,040
|
|
Limitations
The same limitations also prohibit banner and glider towing
__________________
Vern Darley
Awarded FAA "The Wright Brothers 'Master Pilot' Award"- for 50 years safe flying
RV-6A N680V / RV-10QB N353RV
Luscombe 8E N2423K 50+years
Hatz Biplane N2423Z soon to be birthed
Falcon RV Squadron Founder
KFFC Hanger D-30
Peachtree City, Ga
770 310-7169
EAA Technical Counselor #5142
EAA Flight Advisor #486336
ATP/CFI/A&P/DAR
|

03-15-2020, 11:02 AM
|
 |
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Savannah, GA
Posts: 1,029
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockwoodrv9
I do remember watching the video of the guy jumping out of a no-canopy RV. I tried to find out why that is prohibited from experimental planes. I only found it was not allowed - not why. Does anyone know why and are there exceptions?
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vern
The same limitations also prohibit banner and glider towing
|
The FAA apparently assumes that the only reason you would be dropping skydivers, towing a banner, or towing a glider is if you were being paid to do so, and thus would be carrying passengers or cargo for hire.
__________________
RV-7ER - finishing kit and systems installation
There are two kinds of fool in the world. The first says "this is old, and therefore good"; the second says "this is new, and therefore better".
|

03-15-2020, 12:27 PM
|
 |
VAF Moderator / Line Boy
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Dayton, NV
Posts: 12,256
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by rmartingt
The FAA apparently assumes that the only reason you would be dropping skydivers, towing a banner, or towing a glider is if you were being paid to do so, and thus would be carrying passengers or cargo for hire.
|
Basically, I believe that you are correct- but can’t prove it. I looked into this a few years ago with regards to the banner towing limitation, and talked to some folks at a high level at FAA headquarters. You;’re not going to like the answer, but it is what it is...Catch 22!
They have no record of the rationale that put that limitation in there years ago, and because they have no rationale, they can’t waiver it, because they can’t rationalize the waiver! Meanwhile, they have limited resources to work on a huge number of issues, and this doesn’t have enough priority to get fixed - the limitations of small budgets.
Paul
__________________
Paul F. Dye
Editor at Large - KITPLANES Magazine
RV-8 - N188PD - "Valkyrie"
RV-6 (By Marriage) - N164MS - "Mikey"
RV-3B - N13PL - "Tsamsiyu"
A&P, EAA Tech Counselor/Flight Advisor
Dayton Valley Airpark (A34)
http://Ironflight.com
|

03-15-2020, 01:01 PM
|
 |
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Savannah, GA
Posts: 1,029
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironflight
Basically, I believe that you are correct- but can?t prove it. I looked into this a few years ago with regards to the banner towing limitation, and talked to some folks at a high level at FAA headquarters. You;?re not going to like the answer, but it is what it is...Catch 22!
They have no record of the rationale that put that limitation in there years ago, and because they have no rationale, they can?t waiver it, because they can?t rationalize the waiver! Meanwhile, they have limited resources to work on a huge number of issues, and this doesn?t have enough priority to get fixed - the limitations of small budgets.
|
I got basically the same response from some FAA types when I was on the ASTM Part 23 standards committee, when I asked why position light lenses had to be "flameproof" but landing lights only "need not present a fire hazard"...
"We agree the rule doesn't make sense, we don't know why it was written that way, but it's the rule and we're not changing it".
The same FAA guys stated elsewhere that 61kt (single-engine maximum stall speed) and 12,500lb "were on the third tablet that Moses dropped coming down the mountain", as justification for not considering changes to them.
Interestingly, I've noted that the European authorities tend to regulate much more than the FAA does (both with broader coverage and stricter requirements), but on the flip side they seem far more willing to listen to reasoned arguments when it comes to writing and changing the regs.
__________________
RV-7ER - finishing kit and systems installation
There are two kinds of fool in the world. The first says "this is old, and therefore good"; the second says "this is new, and therefore better".
|

03-15-2020, 06:23 PM
|
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: Bay Area CA
Posts: 4
|
|
The same guy in this video link shared another video that you can watch where he drops a skydiver who climbed out on the wing. He does say in the FB comments that "it does handle really badly without the canopy"
|

03-15-2020, 06:39 PM
|
|
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 3,351
|
|
Lets try it and let us know how it goes. For the extra fun, try it with a tip-up type without the canopy.
__________________
Mehrdad
N825SM RV7A - IO360M1B - SOLD
N825MS RV14A - IO390 - Flying
Dues paid
|

03-15-2020, 07:13 PM
|
 |
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Anacortes Wa
Posts: 81
|
|
That was the first thing my youngest (a skydiver) asked when he heard I was building an RV... "Can I jump out of it!!??"
__________________
RV-7 Tipper
Bill (Wild) VA-165 '90-'93
Anacortes, Wa
Start 2/19 Emp complete 4/19 Wings complete 11/19 Fuse complete 6/20 Finish kit Complete 8/20 Electric/Avionics complete 9/20 Waiting on a motor...
Exempt x 3 - Donated 2020
|

03-16-2020, 07:27 AM
|
 |
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,285
|
|
RV's are versatile but jump-plane or banner towing are not two uses I'd not recommend, not safe. Banner towing? Unless you know what you are doing don't do it. You will likely overheat due to very low speed and high power (unless the banner is tiny streamer). Many a "Pro" banner towing outfits flying planes well suited for the job have accidents. This kind of flying low and slow around objects has higher risks.
I flew Jump planes for a short time. Go get a ride at a drop zone with a plane with big door and step if you want to skydive.... . In an RV-7 I'd be worried they would hit the tail or foul or hang up on the cockpit. Pro tip (and required) Jump plane pilots were chutes for a reason. Accidents happen.
__________________
George
Raleigh, NC Area
RV-4, RV-7, ATP, CFII, MEI, 737/757/767
2020 Dues Paid
Last edited by gmcjetpilot : 03-18-2020 at 05:13 PM.
|

03-17-2020, 08:48 AM
|
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 239
|
|
Be mindful of the bigger picture
There are plenty of aircraft that can legally be used to do these activities. If you are determined to do this in your RV, work with your local FSDO to get a waiver amending your Operating Limitations allowing it but I do not believe this will happen. The bigger problem is what Vern and others have said. It is prohibited by the FARs. I have never personally seen or heard of a set of Operating Limitations allowing these activities in an Experimental aircraft. This means doing them will get you a flight violation and void your insurance (if you live). You endanger the Experimental community by doing this as well. Do you want to be the one who convinces the FAA that if we cannot abide by the limitations agreed to allow the Experimental aircraft category to exist, perhaps Experimental aircraft are no longer permitted?
__________________
RV4
|

03-18-2020, 06:41 AM
|
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: uk
Posts: 57
|
|
|
| Thread Tools |
Search this Thread |
|
|
|
| Display Modes |
Linear Mode
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:49 AM.
|