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03-13-2020, 03:09 PM
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Super Moderator
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: Locust Grove, GA
Posts: 2,626
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Pre-buy hints
We were real busy this week with 5 prebuys on top of the usual maintenance and CI's. Only 2 of the 5 prebuys ended up with commenced sales, so I thought I would take the time to share a few things with everyone, as no-body wins when the sale doesn't happen.
Most of the items are things that would be found with just a little extra TLC, or just having someone else take a look at your airplane once in a while. It's easy for any of us to miss something.
- make sure the operating limitations and airworhtiness certificates are in the airplane. The A/W certificate is supposed to be displayed. Mostly the Operating Limitations are missing when the aircraft is owned by a non-builder, because no-one explained it to them
- check nav lights and strobes for proper operation
- consider watching some of my EAA webinars as there are lots of hints on there for things you might look at, such as JAMNUTS. Yep, still finding loose and/or missing jamnuts every day this week. You should know if Vic is coming he is going to find them.

- take thet ime to clean the engine compartments and check air filters
- check to see that the SB's are complied with
- check ELT's for the annual logbook entry and the battery experitation dates
- check the baffling for cracks
- check the oil cooler mounting for cracks
- check the date codes on hoses. twenty year old engine compartment hoses should probably be replaced
make sure the logbooks have the proper Phase I signoff and the aerobatic signoff if appropriate
Clean the airplane, inside and out. First impressions do make a difference. The mahjority of buyers out there today are non-builders who don't want a project. They want to be able to turn the key and go fly.
These are just of the few common offenders. I promise I will have lots of pictures for the CI inspection webinar in May, but I hate to see any more lost sales between now and then.
__________________
 Vic Syracuse
Built RV-4, RV-6, 2-RV-10's, RV-7A, RV-8, Prescott Pusher, Kitfox Model II, Kitfox Speedster, Kitfox 7 Super Sport, Just Superstol, DAR, A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor/Flight Advisor, CFII-ASMEL/ASES
Kitplanes "Unairworthy" monthly feature
EAA Sport Aviation "Checkpoints" column
EAA Homebuilt Council Chair/member EAA BOD
Author "Pre-Buy Guide for Amateur-Built Aircraft"
www.Baselegaviation.com
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03-13-2020, 03:22 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: ohio
Posts: 171
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Thanks for all that you do. I just had a new airworthiness and operating limitations issued for an rv6 that I bought as they were only half there. Also had to fix the phase 1 logbook entry as that was never really done.
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Justin
Rv-6, o360, whirlwind cs prop, old paint and panel
Rv-4,o-320,prince prop, mgl avionics screens - sold
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03-13-2020, 04:54 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: CHESHIRE, MA
Posts: 226
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Vic, do you know if the FAA keeps operating limitations on file? I am getting ready to list a 6a for someone who is missing them. I ordered the aircraft records from the FAA on their website, but I'm not sure if the op lims will be part of the documentation they are sending me.
__________________
Jim
Purchased July 2019: RV-6 0320 Whirlwind Ground Adjustable Prop
"We can porpoises?" -- Leo Farnsworth
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03-13-2020, 05:26 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 959
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilotjim77
Vic, do you know if the FAA keeps operating limitations on file? I am getting ready to list a 6a for someone who is missing them. I ordered the aircraft records from the FAA on their website, but I'm not sure if the op lims will be part of the documentation they are sending me.
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Yes, they are included. The file also includes superseded Ops Lims, if there are any.
Last edited by RV8JD : 03-13-2020 at 05:30 PM.
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03-13-2020, 05:46 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Kennesaw, Ga
Posts: 825
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Thank you Vic
Vic,
I wanted to say thank you for doing a great job on the inspection of our RV-10. You found at least 4 of the above mentioned items on our RV-10 and we were happy to fix them. The new buyer is happy knowing that they are getting a great airplane. We thought our plane was great, but as you said just need someone else to take a fresh look, especially someone like you that knows what they are looking for. We were guilty of not having our Operating limits in the plane with us... after asking several other experimental aircraft builders and owners who did not build, more than half told me that they did not think the operating limits needed to be in the plane after Phase 1 was over  You not only taught me something that day but I spread the word to several others LOL.
Anyway, I wanted to say thank for a great job. We just finished the list that you gave the buyer and finalized the sale yesterday.
__________________
Amir
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RV-7
RV-10 - Sold
Supporting VAF since the first visit
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03-13-2020, 05:53 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: CHESHIRE, MA
Posts: 226
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RV8JD
Yes, they are included. The file also includes superseded Ops Lims, if there are any.
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Thank you, Carl.
__________________
Jim
Purchased July 2019: RV-6 0320 Whirlwind Ground Adjustable Prop
"We can porpoises?" -- Leo Farnsworth
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03-13-2020, 05:57 PM
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Super Moderator
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: Locust Grove, GA
Posts: 2,626
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BCP Boys
Vic,
I wanted to say thank you for doing a great job on the inspection of our RV-10. You found at least 4 of the above mentioned items on our RV-10 and we were happy to fix them. The new buyer is happy knowing that they are getting a great airplane. We thought our plane was great, but as you said just need someone else to take a fresh look, especially someone like you that knows what they are looking for. We were guilty of not having our Operating limits in the plane with us... after asking several other experimental aircraft builders and owners who did not build, more than half told me that they did not think the operating limits needed to be in the plane after Phase 1 was over  You not only taught me something that day but I spread the word to several others LOL.
Anyway, I wanted to say thank for a great job. We just finished the list that you gave the buyer and finalized the sale yesterday.
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Glad to hear it, Amir. I wish I could bottle your attitude and spread it around!
__________________
 Vic Syracuse
Built RV-4, RV-6, 2-RV-10's, RV-7A, RV-8, Prescott Pusher, Kitfox Model II, Kitfox Speedster, Kitfox 7 Super Sport, Just Superstol, DAR, A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor/Flight Advisor, CFII-ASMEL/ASES
Kitplanes "Unairworthy" monthly feature
EAA Sport Aviation "Checkpoints" column
EAA Homebuilt Council Chair/member EAA BOD
Author "Pre-Buy Guide for Amateur-Built Aircraft"
www.Baselegaviation.com
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03-14-2020, 07:37 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: 08A
Posts: 9,500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vic syracuse
We were real busy this week with 5 prebuys on top of the usual maintenance and CI's. Only 2 of the 5 prebuys ended up with commenced sales, so I thought I would take the time to share a few things with everyone, as no-body wins when the sale doesn't happen.
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In the weekday world I'm a independent truck dealer. Given a policy (31 years now) of "Please, take it to your mechanic", I've been on the seller side of many, many, many pre-buys.
Vic is absolutely right about first impressions, second eyeballs, and otherwise getting all the ducks in a row prior to inspection. That said, the single most important thing to tell your buyer is "It doesn't matter what they find. Just bring a list and we'll fix it."
Amir provides a good example.
Yes, I know, it doesn't fit every situation. Some things can't be fixed. Others are not a question of money, but rather they will burn too much time. However, let's be realistic. If you didn't disclose unfixable issues or major problems prior to a pre-buy, losing the sale is an expected outcome. The pr-buy mechanic is doing precisely what he was hired to do...head off a major mistake for his client.
Note that making a deal requires a little common sense on both sides. There are no perfect airplanes. Turning one down because it lacks a logbook entry for an ELT, or because it needs some new baffle tin doesn't make a lot of sense, in particular when it is sitting in front of someone who can correct it. Doesn't matter if you're the seller or the buyer; just be realistic.
__________________
Dan Horton
RV-8 SS
Barrett IO-390
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03-14-2020, 10:32 AM
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Super Moderator
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: Locust Grove, GA
Posts: 2,626
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The airplanes we walk away from have a lot more issues than the list I provided in the first post. The first post is more of a list of things for sellers to take care of ahead of time so they are discussion or negotiating items. They are not usually show stoppers. A good percentage of the airplanes get fixed, either by the seller or even at our shop after the transaction.
Vic
__________________
 Vic Syracuse
Built RV-4, RV-6, 2-RV-10's, RV-7A, RV-8, Prescott Pusher, Kitfox Model II, Kitfox Speedster, Kitfox 7 Super Sport, Just Superstol, DAR, A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor/Flight Advisor, CFII-ASMEL/ASES
Kitplanes "Unairworthy" monthly feature
EAA Sport Aviation "Checkpoints" column
EAA Homebuilt Council Chair/member EAA BOD
Author "Pre-Buy Guide for Amateur-Built Aircraft"
www.Baselegaviation.com
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03-14-2020, 11:36 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 407
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Correct me if I?m wrong...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilotjim77
Vic, do you know if the FAA keeps operating limitations on file? I am getting ready to list a 6a for someone who is missing them. I ordered the aircraft records from the FAA on their website, but I'm not sure if the op lims will be part of the documentation they are sending me.
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Vic, correct me if I?m wrong, but I seem to remember hearing that the ops limits carried in the plane need to be the original. Not photocopies, but the actual original with the ink signature from the FAA. If they get lost, you need to have new ones drawn up. I don?t remember where I heard this from, but do you have any guidance on this?
Thanks.
__________________
Tom
Las Vegas
RV-8 empenage almost finished
Horizontal Stab done! 2-15-2020
Vertical Stab Done! 5-27-2020
Rudder Done! 5-31-2020
Wings ordered!...
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