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  #1  
Old 03-13-2020, 03:09 PM
vic syracuse vic syracuse is offline
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: Locust Grove, GA
Posts: 2,626
Default Pre-buy hints

We were real busy this week with 5 prebuys on top of the usual maintenance and CI's. Only 2 of the 5 prebuys ended up with commenced sales, so I thought I would take the time to share a few things with everyone, as no-body wins when the sale doesn't happen.

Most of the items are things that would be found with just a little extra TLC, or just having someone else take a look at your airplane once in a while. It's easy for any of us to miss something.
  • make sure the operating limitations and airworhtiness certificates are in the airplane. The A/W certificate is supposed to be displayed. Mostly the Operating Limitations are missing when the aircraft is owned by a non-builder, because no-one explained it to them
  • check nav lights and strobes for proper operation
  • consider watching some of my EAA webinars as there are lots of hints on there for things you might look at, such as JAMNUTS. Yep, still finding loose and/or missing jamnuts every day this week. You should know if Vic is coming he is going to find them.
  • take thet ime to clean the engine compartments and check air filters
  • check to see that the SB's are complied with
  • check ELT's for the annual logbook entry and the battery experitation dates
  • check the baffling for cracks
  • check the oil cooler mounting for cracks
  • check the date codes on hoses. twenty year old engine compartment hoses should probably be replaced
    make sure the logbooks have the proper Phase I signoff and the aerobatic signoff if appropriate

Clean the airplane, inside and out. First impressions do make a difference. The mahjority of buyers out there today are non-builders who don't want a project. They want to be able to turn the key and go fly.

These are just of the few common offenders. I promise I will have lots of pictures for the CI inspection webinar in May, but I hate to see any more lost sales between now and then.
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Vic Syracuse

Built RV-4, RV-6, 2-RV-10's, RV-7A, RV-8, Prescott Pusher, Kitfox Model II, Kitfox Speedster, Kitfox 7 Super Sport, Just Superstol, DAR, A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor/Flight Advisor, CFII-ASMEL/ASES
Kitplanes "Unairworthy" monthly feature
EAA Sport Aviation "Checkpoints" column
EAA Homebuilt Council Chair/member EAA BOD
Author "Pre-Buy Guide for Amateur-Built Aircraft"
www.Baselegaviation.com
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  #2  
Old 03-13-2020, 03:22 PM
merlin3 merlin3 is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: ohio
Posts: 171
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Thanks for all that you do. I just had a new airworthiness and operating limitations issued for an rv6 that I bought as they were only half there. Also had to fix the phase 1 logbook entry as that was never really done.
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Justin
Rv-6, o360, whirlwind cs prop, old paint and panel
Rv-4,o-320,prince prop, mgl avionics screens - sold
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  #3  
Old 03-13-2020, 04:54 PM
Pilotjim77 Pilotjim77 is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: CHESHIRE, MA
Posts: 226
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Vic, do you know if the FAA keeps operating limitations on file? I am getting ready to list a 6a for someone who is missing them. I ordered the aircraft records from the FAA on their website, but I'm not sure if the op lims will be part of the documentation they are sending me.
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Jim

Purchased July 2019: RV-6 0320 Whirlwind Ground Adjustable Prop

"We can porpoises?" -- Leo Farnsworth
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  #4  
Old 03-13-2020, 05:26 PM
RV8JD's Avatar
RV8JD RV8JD is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 959
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilotjim77 View Post
Vic, do you know if the FAA keeps operating limitations on file? I am getting ready to list a 6a for someone who is missing them. I ordered the aircraft records from the FAA on their website, but I'm not sure if the op lims will be part of the documentation they are sending me.
Yes, they are included. The file also includes superseded Ops Lims, if there are any.
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Carl N.
Arlington, WA (KAWO)
RV-8, 790 Tach Hours
(Pic 1),(Pic 2)
- Out with the Old, In with the New
(Pic)
RV-8, 1938 Tach Hours (Pic 1),(Pic 2) - Sold

Glasflugel Standard Libelle 201B - Sold
Rolladen-Schneider LS1-f - No longer owned

Last edited by RV8JD : 03-13-2020 at 05:30 PM.
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  #5  
Old 03-13-2020, 05:46 PM
BCP Boys's Avatar
BCP Boys BCP Boys is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Kennesaw, Ga
Posts: 825
Default Thank you Vic

Vic,
I wanted to say thank you for doing a great job on the inspection of our RV-10. You found at least 4 of the above mentioned items on our RV-10 and we were happy to fix them. The new buyer is happy knowing that they are getting a great airplane. We thought our plane was great, but as you said just need someone else to take a fresh look, especially someone like you that knows what they are looking for. We were guilty of not having our Operating limits in the plane with us... after asking several other experimental aircraft builders and owners who did not build, more than half told me that they did not think the operating limits needed to be in the plane after Phase 1 was over You not only taught me something that day but I spread the word to several others LOL.

Anyway, I wanted to say thank for a great job. We just finished the list that you gave the buyer and finalized the sale yesterday.
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RV-7
RV-10 - Sold

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  #6  
Old 03-13-2020, 05:53 PM
Pilotjim77 Pilotjim77 is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: CHESHIRE, MA
Posts: 226
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RV8JD View Post
Yes, they are included. The file also includes superseded Ops Lims, if there are any.
Thank you, Carl.
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Jim

Purchased July 2019: RV-6 0320 Whirlwind Ground Adjustable Prop

"We can porpoises?" -- Leo Farnsworth
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  #7  
Old 03-13-2020, 05:57 PM
vic syracuse vic syracuse is offline
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: Locust Grove, GA
Posts: 2,626
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BCP Boys View Post
Vic,
I wanted to say thank you for doing a great job on the inspection of our RV-10. You found at least 4 of the above mentioned items on our RV-10 and we were happy to fix them. The new buyer is happy knowing that they are getting a great airplane. We thought our plane was great, but as you said just need someone else to take a fresh look, especially someone like you that knows what they are looking for. We were guilty of not having our Operating limits in the plane with us... after asking several other experimental aircraft builders and owners who did not build, more than half told me that they did not think the operating limits needed to be in the plane after Phase 1 was over You not only taught me something that day but I spread the word to several others LOL.

Anyway, I wanted to say thank for a great job. We just finished the list that you gave the buyer and finalized the sale yesterday.
Glad to hear it, Amir. I wish I could bottle your attitude and spread it around!
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Vic Syracuse

Built RV-4, RV-6, 2-RV-10's, RV-7A, RV-8, Prescott Pusher, Kitfox Model II, Kitfox Speedster, Kitfox 7 Super Sport, Just Superstol, DAR, A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor/Flight Advisor, CFII-ASMEL/ASES
Kitplanes "Unairworthy" monthly feature
EAA Sport Aviation "Checkpoints" column
EAA Homebuilt Council Chair/member EAA BOD
Author "Pre-Buy Guide for Amateur-Built Aircraft"
www.Baselegaviation.com
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  #8  
Old 03-14-2020, 07:37 AM
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DanH DanH is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: 08A
Posts: 9,500
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by vic syracuse View Post
We were real busy this week with 5 prebuys on top of the usual maintenance and CI's. Only 2 of the 5 prebuys ended up with commenced sales, so I thought I would take the time to share a few things with everyone, as no-body wins when the sale doesn't happen.
In the weekday world I'm a independent truck dealer. Given a policy (31 years now) of "Please, take it to your mechanic", I've been on the seller side of many, many, many pre-buys.

Vic is absolutely right about first impressions, second eyeballs, and otherwise getting all the ducks in a row prior to inspection. That said, the single most important thing to tell your buyer is "It doesn't matter what they find. Just bring a list and we'll fix it."

Amir provides a good example.

Yes, I know, it doesn't fit every situation. Some things can't be fixed. Others are not a question of money, but rather they will burn too much time. However, let's be realistic. If you didn't disclose unfixable issues or major problems prior to a pre-buy, losing the sale is an expected outcome. The pr-buy mechanic is doing precisely what he was hired to do...head off a major mistake for his client.

Note that making a deal requires a little common sense on both sides. There are no perfect airplanes. Turning one down because it lacks a logbook entry for an ELT, or because it needs some new baffle tin doesn't make a lot of sense, in particular when it is sitting in front of someone who can correct it. Doesn't matter if you're the seller or the buyer; just be realistic.
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RV-8 SS
Barrett IO-390
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  #9  
Old 03-14-2020, 10:32 AM
vic syracuse vic syracuse is offline
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: Locust Grove, GA
Posts: 2,626
Default

The airplanes we walk away from have a lot more issues than the list I provided in the first post. The first post is more of a list of things for sellers to take care of ahead of time so they are discussion or negotiating items. They are not usually show stoppers. A good percentage of the airplanes get fixed, either by the seller or even at our shop after the transaction.

Vic
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Vic Syracuse

Built RV-4, RV-6, 2-RV-10's, RV-7A, RV-8, Prescott Pusher, Kitfox Model II, Kitfox Speedster, Kitfox 7 Super Sport, Just Superstol, DAR, A&P/IA, EAA Tech Counselor/Flight Advisor, CFII-ASMEL/ASES
Kitplanes "Unairworthy" monthly feature
EAA Sport Aviation "Checkpoints" column
EAA Homebuilt Council Chair/member EAA BOD
Author "Pre-Buy Guide for Amateur-Built Aircraft"
www.Baselegaviation.com
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  #10  
Old 03-14-2020, 11:36 AM
Taltruda Taltruda is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 407
Default Correct me if I?m wrong...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilotjim77 View Post
Vic, do you know if the FAA keeps operating limitations on file? I am getting ready to list a 6a for someone who is missing them. I ordered the aircraft records from the FAA on their website, but I'm not sure if the op lims will be part of the documentation they are sending me.
Vic, correct me if I?m wrong, but I seem to remember hearing that the ops limits carried in the plane need to be the original. Not photocopies, but the actual original with the ink signature from the FAA. If they get lost, you need to have new ones drawn up. I don?t remember where I heard this from, but do you have any guidance on this?
Thanks.
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Las Vegas
RV-8 empenage almost finished
Horizontal Stab done! 2-15-2020
Vertical Stab Done! 5-27-2020
Rudder Done! 5-31-2020
Wings ordered!...
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