Ads-b for sun n fun

FLY6 · #1 03-09-2020, 06:44 PM

Does anyone know for sure whether ads-b is required to fly into sun n fun? The 2020 notam shows the shaded area as mode c veil exclusion, does this mean no ads-b is required as Lakeland is not not considered to be in the mode c veil. I know I could fly in with the ADAPT but that is not what I am asking.

By the way, I spoke to both AOPA and Lakeland tower with no clarification.

Thanks for any help

RV6_flyer · #2 03-09-2020, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FLY6

Does anyone know for sure whether ads-b is required to fly into sun n fun? The 2020 notam shows the shaded area as mode c veil exclusion, does this mean no ads-b is required as Lakeland is not not considered to be in the mode c veil. I know I could fly in with the ADAPT but that is not what I am asking.

By the way, I spoke to both AOPA and Lakeland tower with no clarification.

Thanks for any help

I see nothing in the Sun N Fun 2020 NOTAM that is an exception to ADS-B requirement.

The only exceptions that I found in the NOTAM says:

Per 14 CFR 91.215, aircraft without electrical systems, balloons, and gliders are exempt from the Mode C transponder requirement when operating within the Orlando and Tampa Mode C veil. ATC authorization to deviate from transponder requirement is not required.

IF you meet the above exemption, then you can fly into Sun N Fun 2020 without ADS-B.

FLY6 · #3 03-09-2020, 08:22 PM

I agree it does not say anything about ads-b but on page 14, the diagram shows a mode c veil exclusion area. The only reason we should need ads-b is because Lakeland was under the mode c veil. With the exclusion area, Lakeland is not in the mode c veil. That is where I find it unclear

Ed_Wischmeyer · #4 03-10-2020, 05:35 AM

File an ASRS report before you fly, documenting the confusion. Not only does this CYA, it also documents the issue so that it can be resolved. (Not many folks realize that ASRS has lots of safety value, not CYA. I used to work there...)

fl-mike · #5 03-10-2020, 06:34 AM

See page 23-27 of the pdf NOTAM.
ADS-B is required in a mode C veil, so if the veil is modified/removed for SnF, then no ADS-B should be required.
But yeah, they could have taken five minutes to update the old NOTAM mode C transponder notes to clarify ADS-B. Sheesh.
https://d2uowj5bno3yjz.cloudfront.ne...2020_NOTAM.pdf

RV6_flyer · #6 03-10-2020, 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FLY6

I agree it does not say anything about ads-b but on page 14, the diagram shows a mode c veil exclusion area. The only reason we should need ads-b is because Lakeland was under the mode c veil. With the exclusion area, Lakeland is not in the mode c veil. That is where I find it unclear

Quote:

Originally Posted by fl-mike

See page 23-27 of the pdf NOTAM.
ADS-B is required in a mode C veil, so if the veil is modified/removed for SnF, then no ADS-B should be required.
But yeah, they could have taken five minutes to update the old NOTAM mode C transponder notes to clarify ADS-B. Sheesh.
https://d2uowj5bno3yjz.cloudfront.ne...2020_NOTAM.pdf

The only exclusion in the NOTAM is for aircraft certificated without electrical systems. Searching the NOTAM, ADS-B is not in the document.

BlndRvtr · #7 03-10-2020, 07:48 AM

I was curious about the ADS-B requirement and possible waiver for SNF. The NOTAM addresses non Mode C equipped aircraft specifically. Well , there are plenty of Mode C equipped aircraft without ADS-B, but the NOTAM doesn't specifically address that situation. So I wrote to the FAA. Here is their reply:

"Mr. Richmond,
Thank you for reaching out with your question. The FAA is currently working this specific issue with the Air Traffic Managers for the facilities involved with Sun?N?Fun. We hope to find a solution on the ADS-B Out authorization question in the near future, and will work with the event organizer to ensure the widest dissemination of that information. Since the window has closed to update this in the Notice to Airmen Publication (NTAP), we anticipate that any update/clarification will likely appear via NOTAM 2-3 days prior to the event."

It appears they are considering the situation. I will keep you all posted here with any further developments I become aware of.

George

fl-mike · #8 03-10-2020, 07:50 AM

Not how I read it. The NOTAM charts show a mode C veil exclusion area for SnF.
Stop.

Now, there are also words about non-electrical aircraft being okay within the entire Tampa and Orlando mode C veils. Different subject.

The problem is that the NOTAM no longer says to turn off your transponder, so now we have the "I have a mode-C XPNDR, but no ADS-B, so what do I do?"
So, my contention is that ADS-B is required in a mode-C veil, and that veil is temporarily modified. So leave on whatever you got!

rv7boy · #9 03-10-2020, 09:41 AM

Why would anyone want to fly into Sun?n Fun WITHOUT ADS-B?
?If you dance to the music, you have to pay the fiddler!?

Dugaru · #10 03-10-2020, 10:48 AM

I can't think of a good reason not to have ADS-B IN. The weather info and traffic advisories are incredibly useful, there's no subscription cost, and you can build your own receiver for $100 or so (maybe less these days) and run it on an iphone or whatever.

But I can think of good reasons not to have ADS-B OUT. It's expensive (even in the experimental world), doesn't really provide a ton of benefits to GA other than access to airspace, and isn't necessary at all in huge swaths of the country. Meanwhile, even some completed installations have proven problematic later.

If I didn't fly in areas that require it, I likely wouldn't get ADS-B.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rv7boy

Why would anyone want to fly into Sun?n Fun WITHOUT ADS-B?
?If you dance to the music, you have to pay the fiddler!?