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  #11  
Old 03-09-2020, 03:33 PM
74-07 74-07 is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Greenville, SC
Posts: 601
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Problem is many of us didn't build them and the documentation we have doesn't show the brand, type, etc.. Sorry but there is no possible way for me to give you the information you are wanting. In my case, I could find NO documentation showing they HAD been replaced so, to be prudent, I changed them out. Peace of mind is worth the cost of some hoses.

Last edited by 74-07 : 03-09-2020 at 03:36 PM.
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  #12  
Old 03-09-2020, 03:55 PM
Scott Hersha Scott Hersha is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 2,012
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Yep, me too. I just ordered all new FWF hoses from Tom at TS for my new to me RV4. Nothing noted in the logbook about replacement and a couple of them looked like it?s been a while since they were new. Only 300 hours total time on the airframe and engine, but the years count. Replace those old hoses.
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SH
RV6/2001 built/sold 2005
RV8 Fastback/2008 built/sold 2015
RV4/bought 2016/sold/2017
RV8/2018 built/Sold(sadly)
RV4/bought 2019 Flying
RV6/Used kit purchased 2021 building
Cincinnati, OH/KHAO
JAN2021
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  #13  
Old 03-09-2020, 04:58 PM
fixnflyguy fixnflyguy is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Winston-Salem, N.C.
Posts: 1,465
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I have recommended Tom to the new owner at the time I found the problem. Doesnt really matter what my forensics may find. I posted this in the interest that everyone pay attention to ANY line no matter its origin, known or unknown. What's behind us is not as important as to what's in front of us.
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8A7 / Advance NC
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  #14  
Old 03-09-2020, 05:11 PM
lr172 lr172 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Schaumburg, IL
Posts: 6,681
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RV7A Flyer View Post

It'd be much more useful for people to post more info on the *parts themselves* when they find a failure or potential failure, so we can be better informed.
You really should read the first post. The OP said he was helping a friend who just purchased the plane. How could he possibly know any details about the hose and it's installatoin.

personally, I appreciate the poster for sharing his experience.

Larry
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  #15  
Old 03-09-2020, 05:12 PM
TS Flightlines TS Flightlines is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Ridgeland, SC
Posts: 2,927
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OK----Generally speaking, because in experimentals anything goes ---within reason-- 'rubber' lined assemblies use reusable, field attachable screw on hose ends, verses the crimped collar style more commonly in use for teflon assemblies. YES ---there are teflon assemblies that use reusables--Aeroquip Super Gem series fittings--and a few others out there--Earls Performance, Russell, Goodridge, etc, but most of what you'll see is crimped versions.
The resuable type fittings generally are blue and red anodized aluminum for stainless braid rubber type, and gold or blue collars with black steel and blue aluminum nuts for cotton covered H8794 (Aeroquip 303) type hose. Aftermarket 'race car' hose and fittings can be most any color you want. So suspect 'rubber' when you see them.

The types of reusables that are assembled on the rubber hoses are NOT used on teflon. Various reasons why, but generally the threaded stem and collars are of a different ID and OD to be compatible with teflon. Part of that ID difference is in the hose itself. Take the same ID hose in teflon, Rubber (like 701) and 303, and the difference in construction is obvious. Thicker liner wall to enable a good working pressure, tightly woven stainless braid, and or a nylon and steel braid reinforcement with a cotton cover overbraid. All of that contributes to the working pressure of the hose. Teflon doesnt expand like a rubber hose, so the wall can be alot thinner, and witht the stainless braid the overal OD can be smaller. Similar or greater working pressures for the same sized rubber hoses.

Word of caution. Because we all are dealing in experimentals, what you see isnt necessarily what you get. We've seen some rubber lined hoses with crimped hose ends done by the local hydraulic shop. At the same time, we've seen teflon assemblies that were not using a conductive liner for fuel systems. It all about knowing what is acceptable and what is not. As a general rule, all teflon hoses should be conductive especially those where fuel is used. Brakes may be an exception because you arent moving brake fluid for consumption like fuel. Oils dont pick up a static electrical charge, but its still great practice to use a conductive hose. MOST industrial hose shops dont stock the conductive hose.

If there is any question, you can call us and we'll help you identify the assemblies.
Tom
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Tom Swearengen, TS Flightlines LLC, AS Flightlines
Joint Venture with Aircraft Specialty
Teflon Hose Assemblies for Experimentals
Proud Vendor for RV1, Donator to VAF
RV7A Tail Kit Completed, Fuse started-Pay as I go Plan, on hold while we develop new products for RV builders
Ridgeland, SC
www.tsflightlines.com, www.asflightlines.com
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  #16  
Old 03-09-2020, 05:53 PM
74-07 74-07 is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Greenville, SC
Posts: 601
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Tom, what you describe is exactly what I removed. Blue and red fittings and rubber inner liner. In the hose I looked at today, after removing the reuseable fittings, it appeared the rubber liner had actually begun to separate from the casing. When I tried to pull on it with some forceps, the liner just kind of crumbled. Thanks again for your incredible help in getting my RV-8 up to today's standard. Your hoses, along with the new AFP boost pump, really make it a great set up AND it's one I can fly with confidence.

Last edited by 74-07 : 03-09-2020 at 05:55 PM.
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  #17  
Old 03-09-2020, 07:16 PM
TS Flightlines TS Flightlines is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Ridgeland, SC
Posts: 2,927
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Rob----I'm not blasting the 'rubber' lines hose. For guys that want to make their own assemblies, its a pretty easy way to do it. BUt we've seen that guys will build them and leave them on for years---until there is an issue---like Bill's.
At the same time, there are ways for guys to make their own teflon assemblies, using reusable hose ends. Earls has an excellent product, but by the time you buy a bunch of hose ends, hose and firesleeve, it would probably be less expensive both in cost and time to have them made and tested.

But for this thread, the question was identification. If you have a rubber lined hose, that has been installed for 5-6 years, It might be a great idea to really check them. In Bill's case, the plane may not have had many actual hours, and who knows when the last time it flew, but it certainly would have been a bad day if he had gotten airborne and had the issue.

NO easy way to sugar coat it---

Tom
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Tom Swearengen, TS Flightlines LLC, AS Flightlines
Joint Venture with Aircraft Specialty
Teflon Hose Assemblies for Experimentals
Proud Vendor for RV1, Donator to VAF
RV7A Tail Kit Completed, Fuse started-Pay as I go Plan, on hold while we develop new products for RV builders
Ridgeland, SC
www.tsflightlines.com, www.asflightlines.com
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  #18  
Old 03-09-2020, 11:21 PM
lr172 lr172 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Schaumburg, IL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TS Flightlines View Post
Rob----I'm not blasting the 'rubber' lines hose. For guys that want to make their own assemblies, its a pretty easy way to do it. BUt we've seen that guys will build them and leave them on for years---until there is an issue---like Bill's.
At the same time, there are ways for guys to make their own teflon assemblies, using reusable hose ends. Earls has an excellent product, but by the time you buy a bunch of hose ends, hose and firesleeve, it would probably be less expensive both in cost and time to have them made and tested.

But for this thread, the question was identification. If you have a rubber lined hose, that has been installed for 5-6 years, It might be a great idea to really check them. In Bill's case, the plane may not have had many actual hours, and who knows when the last time it flew, but it certainly would have been a bad day if he had gotten airborne and had the issue.

NO easy way to sugar coat it---

Tom
Tom,

I used aeroquip FCA rubber hose and Earls fittings for my fuel lines, as I could not source conductive teflon. What should I expect for usefull life on this hose, assuming 100LL?
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Last edited by lr172 : 03-09-2020 at 11:26 PM.
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  #19  
Old 03-10-2020, 09:00 AM
RV-4 Flyer's Avatar
RV-4 Flyer RV-4 Flyer is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Indianapolis
Posts: 27
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Many years ago, while doing an annual on an Aerostar, we found some oil seeping from a hose -out the end of a firesleeve. It mystified us and we investigated.

We cut the clamps and slipped off the firesleeve. The braided hose underneath looked *perfect*. We then plugged the hose and applied shop air at 50psi (as I recall) and submerged it in a tray of solvent in the parts washer (convenient). Air bubbled out *all over* the hose through the pretty stainless braid. Wow!

We determined that all the hoses were about the same age (and I'm not sure we conclusively determined what that was exactly) and the long story short is that we found them all in a similar condition -some a little worse than others. Some started leaking after being flexed. None stood up to the pressure test.

I believe (guessing) it was Aeroquip 601 (?). Been a long time.

None of this stuff lasts forever.
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RV-4 flying since 1998, O-320 160hp, old Pacesetter woody (but preparing for Hartzell install)
Dynon D180, HS34, D10A, Garmin 396 (I call it the amazing glass panel of yesteryear)
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  #20  
Old 03-10-2020, 09:24 AM
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daddyman daddyman is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Fredericksburg, Virginia
Posts: 326
Default Had a sneaky one last year

Quote:
Originally Posted by fixnflyguy View Post
We all trust those SS braided lines and other flex hoses on our aircraft will seldom fail, and and give them all the standard inspections relevant to the yearly health check or when we have access. I, as an RV builder, A&P, and IA, got the wake-up scare this weekend that sheds some different light on the "normal" inspection. Here is the scenario.. I went to Fla to pick up and fly a recently purchased RV-4 home for a friend who is not yet checked out to fly it. The aircraft was recently condition inspected, regularly flown and didn't seemingly pose any threat to a 3 hour flight back to NC. After the more than normal walk-around pre-flight, I mounted up to depart, with the new owner and a friend standing to the side observing. Boost pump on, 3-4 blades and I get signal from them we have something coming out the cowling. Turns out it was fuel..alot of it, right on the exhaust. De-cowl and find the SS flex line from the carb to the fuel pressure indicator is nearly porous, and weeping out all over. It certainly is undetectable without pressure. This could have been a fireball ! I will add too my inspection criteria, all fuel lines will be checked with pressure applied, and periodic pre-flights will get the same with me not in the cockpit. It would never be seen by someone just going out to fly with no bystander...lessons learned every day. We did get it fixed, and the rest of the adventure home was uneventful...check/replace those flex lines!!
Bill,
I had an oil leak that I could not find, despite really looking for it.
It got progressively worse. Finally with the help of some RV'ers at my field discovered the stainless steel line from the prop governor to the prop had been rubbed and was the source of the leak.

Tom build a beautiful fire sleaved replacement.
Solved.

Daddyman
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