ECI-360 oil pressure problem solved

[mahlon_r]

What type of relief valve cover do you have? Can look like a Bat Masterson derby hat or an Abe Lincoln stove pipe hat or the stove pipe with an adjusting stem and nut out of the top. If its the derby type there needs to be a cage inside the engine to center the relief valve ball to it's seat. There is no cage used with the other two style caps. If you have a derby style cap with out the cage the oil pressure will be intermittent normal, high, low and in-between, as the ball never hits it's seat correctly all of the time.
something to check....
Good Luck,
Mahlon

[Earl Findlay]

I have flown twice more since adding more oil to the motor. Oil pressure is solid at 80 - 85 psi inflight. Looks like I dodged a bullet.

[RV8JD]

Originally Posted by Earl Findlay

Well, the last two flights the oil pressure has been around 55 psi. That's 15 psi lower than I am used to.

Originally Posted by Earl Findlay

I have flown twice more since adding more oil to the motor. Oil pressure is solid at 80 - 85 psi inflight. Looks like I dodged a bullet.

Glad to hear that.

Question: In your first post you said you saw OP of 55 psi, 15 psi lower than normal. That would be a normal of 70 psi. Now you are seeing 80 - 85 psi. Does the unexplained difference between the old normal of 70 psi and the new normal of 80 - 85 psi give you any pause?

[Earl Findlay]

Originally Posted by RV8JD

Glad to hear that.

Question: In your first post you said you saw OP of 55 psi, 15 psi lower than normal. That would be a normal of 70 psi. Now you are seeing 80 - 85 psi. Does the unexplained difference between the old normal of 70 psi and the new normal of 80 - 85 psi give you any pause?

No, not at all. Should it? I am not an engine expert my any means. If you have some concern or suggestions, I?m all ears. I?m here to learn.

My belief is that the engine has ALWAYS been run a bit low on oil and hence the lower pressures. I have a photo on my phone at 11,500? and the oil pressure there was 73 psi and temp was 198. Now I?m seeing 80-85 psi and 180 on the oil temp. Does that data support previously having lower oil quantity than optimal? I believe yes?

I?m seeing low to mid 80 psi and 180 degree temps at 7500? and lower. I haven?t had it up to 11,500? yet to do an actual like for like comparison.

[RV8JD]

Originally Posted by Earl Findlay

I have a photo on my phone at 11,500’ and the oil pressure there was 73 psi and temp was 198. Now I’m seeing 80-85 psi and 180 on the oil temp.

I’m seeing low to mid 80 psi and 180 degree temps at 7500’ and lower. I haven’t had it up to 11,500’ yet to do an actual like for like comparison.

The oil temp differences could explain the difference in the oil pressures.

[lr172]

Originally Posted by Earl Findlay

No, not at all. Should it? I am not an engine expert my any means. If you have some concern or suggestions, I’m all ears. I’m here to learn.

My belief is that the engine has ALWAYS been run a bit low on oil and hence the lower pressures. I have a photo on my phone at 11,500’ and the oil pressure there was 73 psi and temp was 198. Now I’m seeing 80-85 psi and 180 on the oil temp. Does that data support previously having lower oil quantity than optimal? I believe yes?

I’m seeing low to mid 80 psi and 180 degree temps at 7500’ and lower. I haven’t had it up to 11,500’ yet to do an actual like for like comparison.

Yes, it should. Oil sump level in relationship to oil pressure is binary. It's basically all or none. It is not a gravity fed system, so level is irrelevant until the level is so low that the sump's port is no longer fully covered by oil, then pressure drops like a rock. The pressure will often go up and down like a roller coaster as the oil goes from covering to not covering the sump port due to movement of the oil surface. Most engines have a very consistent long term relationship between oil temp and pressure, assuming the same oil viscosity. The fact that yours is a moving target at the same temp is an indication of a problem. You need to re-read Mahlon's advice, as it likely explains your issue. His advice helped me solve this exact issue on the 540 core that I recently overhauled. It had obviously been running with this issue for a long time before I got it, based upon the log's history of oil related parts replacement. The A&P clearly never figured out the mismatch of parts. I had it addressed in 5 hours of flight thanks to Mahlon's generous posting of his extensive knowledge.

In my experience, the difference of 180 to 198* will NOT represent a reduction of 10 PSI. I suppose that different issues in different engines could cause this. I can assure you that the 80-55 PSI drop is not from oil temp, assuming temps compared are above 120. I have an engine in phase I now and watch this stuff closely. oil temps in the 160-185* range are consistently giving me 80-82 PSI at all altitudes with 2400+ RPMs.


Larry

[Earl Findlay]

We spent the last few hours taking the various suggestions listed in this thread.

1. Relief valve cover was checked. It?s the ?stove pipe? type, and all checks out.
2. Suction screen is clean.
3. Oil changed, and sample being sent out. Approximately 5 1/2 quarts were removed, meaning that prior to servicing, the engine had about 3 1/2 quarts.
4. Oil filter clear of any visible causes for concern.

Took it up for another flight and oil pressure is rock solid in the low to mid 80?s.

[Earl Findlay]

Added 7.5 hours to the engine this weekend. Lowest oil pressure I saw at cruise was 78, highest was 88. Right there I'd expect it!

Oil sample should be back early this week, but I am feeling really good about things now. Based on all the great advice posted in this thread, I honestly cannot tell you WHY oil quantity alone has raised my oil pressure, but after 12+ hours on the motor since servicing up to 6 quarts, the oil pressure has been solid.

Any suggestions on how long I should have pressure back to the normal range before I take a passenger up with me (in other words .. until we know that it's truly fixed)? By the info I received here, I stopped taking passengers, thinking the risk was feeling too high, but I am starting to feel a lot better about things now. Any guidance on hours until YOU would feel comfortable riding with me would be most helpful.

Much thanks,

Earl

[lr172]

Originally Posted by Earl Findlay

Added 7.5 hours to the engine this weekend. Lowest oil pressure I saw at cruise was 78, highest was 88. Right there I'd expect it!

Earl

If those were found with comparable oil temps, I would remain concerned. I see very stable oil pressures at similar temps over several years. Maybe others can comment on their experience, however, I would still be concerned until I understood why the pressure is changing. While I may be incorrect, I simply don't believe your low pressure was due to oil level, but was simply part of the erractic pressure swings that you are seeing. Cause and effect can be quite difficult to determine with intermittent problems. How do you know that the oil level addressed the issue when it only happened once or twice? It is possible that the disappearance of symptoms was simply coincidental to the adding of oil.

Most likely problem area is the pressure relief and I would want to pull it and put eyes on it. It only takes a few minutes to pull it.

Larry

[Jim Ball]

Originally Posted by SPX

How does one know what the ?Lycoming equivalent? is for their ECI motor to know if this applies?

The ECi and now Continental Aerospace Titan engines are built to the customer's specification. They are based upon the Lycoming(R) parallel valve 320 and 360 designs but there are so many variants that direct comparisons are very difficult to make. Titan engines have many unique characteristics that improve on the original design like NiC3 plated cylinder barrels, light weight oil sump, thrust washer equipped crankcases, etc. The dimensions are the same as the 320 and 360. Continental Aerospace also manufactures "stroked engines" with more displacement and power. Those are the 340 ( stroked 320) and 370 (stroked 360) engines. When you see all of the options ( displacement, carbureted, fuel injected, fixed pitch , constant speed, conical or dynafocal motor mount, front governor, rear governor, magneto ignition, electronic ignition, vertical induction, horizontal induction, and the various fuel delivery and ignition options, it become exponential. We build to the customer's requirements / mission.

I hope this helps answer your question, sort of........