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01-29-2020, 09:44 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Rancho San Lorenzo
Posts: 885
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Aviat Husky 200hp angle valve IO-360 with MT C/S 2-blade composite prop: I installed a SureFly in place of the right side Slick non-impulse mag and kept the left side impulse coupled Slick. I also removed the shorting jumper from the ignition key switch so both L and R are un-grounded and therefore allow both to fire for start. I figured what could be better than all the spark available at start. Plus never know when I will need to hand prop a dead battery in which case I can depend on the original impulsed Slick. While hand prop starting is probably not as important for an RV remember that mine is in a Husky that may well be in the boonies when a dead battery hits. There is no electrical or functional difference between the SureFly impulse or non-impulse replacement models. The difference is the housings are different so that whichever one you decide to replace you can use the original drive gear. This is as opposed to the P-mag which only provides the option of the non-impulse gear which means most folks have to buy an extra gear when replacing the LHS mag. SureFly went to the effort to accommodate whichever type of gear you want to use.
I have the same thoughts as you and decided to set the SureFly to fixed timing per the engine data plate. I chose fixed timing for simplicity and also because I have read the angle-valve engines do not respond as well as parallel valve engines to variable advance timing curves. Plus the low-level mission profile of a bush plane won't actualize any economy from an advance timing curve. I have never experienced a kick back.
The SureFly has been awesome. I probably have about 150 hours on mine. Starts easy both cold and hot even with fuel rejection. And since the SureFly fires at TDC for start even a slow starter works as good as a fast one. For reference, even if set with fixed timing the SureFly still uses TDC for start before ramping back to the fixed timing value once a minimum RPM is achieved.
The unit itself seems very hearty and robust and probably weighs as much or more as a magneto. It is wired directly to the positive side of the battery with a 10A fuse prior to the master solenoid for reliability and failure mitigation. So the power wire is "always hot" which might be a concern. The 10A fuse should cover any inadvertent shorting.
My RV-8 has dual P-Mags and I like those too. But the SureFly on the Husky performs as well without the price tag, although the P-Mags do have an advantage of generating their own spark without battery power above about 800rpm.
I would buy and install a SureFly again in a heart beat.
Jim
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RV-8
(a few more airplanes too)
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01-29-2020, 09:57 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Sonoma County
Posts: 3,821
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__________________
VAF #897 Warren Moretti
2019 =VAF= Dues PAID
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01-29-2020, 10:03 PM
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been here awhile
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: North Alabama
Posts: 4,301
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Jim, great field report, thanks!
My rational for replacing the impulse mag is to say goodbye to the mechanical impulse. Even though unlikely for a well-maintained mag if the impulse fails and drops debris into the timing gears the engine will stop. There is also the increased cost of replacing a worn impulse. But your need for being able to hand prop in a pinch makes sense.
I read the installation doc and couldn’t tell which side of the master contactor needs to power the SureFly. Glad to see it is intended to be hot all the time....removes the possibility of a failed or turned off contactor taking out the ignition.
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01-29-2020, 10:09 PM
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been here awhile
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: North Alabama
Posts: 4,301
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gasman
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I’m sure the SDS is a fine system, but the SureFly appears to be a much simpler install, not much more involved than swapping out a mag. Since Lycoming is marketing their version of the SureFly on their engines this should be a well-known device in the years to come.
Last edited by Sam Buchanan : 01-29-2020 at 10:21 PM.
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01-29-2020, 10:50 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Sonoma County
Posts: 3,821
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Sam, I do agree, it is a very easy install...... a BIG plus.
__________________
VAF #897 Warren Moretti
2019 =VAF= Dues PAID
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01-30-2020, 01:12 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Rancho San Lorenzo
Posts: 885
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And I forgot to mention in my previous post. With respect to digital tachometers. The SureFly doesn't put out the same type of strong pulse a magneto rotor does so tach sensing can be an issue. SureFly has worked out solutions. For example, I have an EI CGR30P which out of the box senses tach pulses from each magneto by attaching to each p-lead terminal on the ignition switch. This worked great with my Slicks but the SureFly caused an error message that R magneto was inop. I still had RPM shown on "both" because the Slick was still sensed for L mag. There wasn't an actual problem and a mag check had the SureFly working strong and great with the ignition switch set on "R" while the CGR screen showed zero RPM. The "fix" was to replace the original in-line resistor that was part of the EI installation on the Right P-lead with a new resistor of lower value. EI calls these in-line resistors "isolators" for whatever reason. Isolator sounds more like a diode to me but whatever floats their boat. I bought a 5-pack of these resistors for a buck on eBay and replaced the original EI component and everything works fine. SureFly has resistor spec listed within its online FAQs. Unfortunately it's not in the installation instructions, just within online support documents. I think the fact the SureFly is STC'd makes it difficult for them to update the approved installation manual. This can lead folks like me to do a full install following the manual and then button everything up only to then find out there is a tach problem that needs to be addressed.
One more nit. When doing a run-up mag check the SureFly might have a microsecond of a pause when selected to check drop. This can get your attention at first. Basically the unit has been switched off by the ignition switch and then at the instant it's P-Lead is selected it has to wake up and immediately take over. It being a computer-controlled device there is that microsecond where you can detect an almost imperceptible miss as the unit kicks in. You will not hear this if you have separate magneto switches instead of a keyed ignition switch. SureFly told me there is no problem caused by this but they are working on incorporating a design change to preclude this. Probably as much to deflect a bunch of phone calls from concerned pilots.
If anybody has tach issues with the SureFly call your tach manufacturer (like EI) or SureFly for guidance.
Here is a thread I started with photos of my install on the Husky in case somebody wants to take a walk on the tube and fabric side:
http://flyhusky.com/forum/index.php?...n-module.2456/
Jim
__________________
RV-8
(a few more airplanes too)
Last edited by jliltd : 01-30-2020 at 01:25 AM.
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01-30-2020, 04:40 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bkervaski
I need to stop replying to posts on my mobile without reading glasses ..  .. been trying to cross the 50 yard line without needing them 
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Give in to aging old man....  (as I put my cheaters on)
Sounds like a few good comments from Experience. I'm a SDS fan, but I always like the idea of self contained EI, like E-Mag (P-Mag), easier installation and self powered. EI is a choice and have pros and cons. The SureFly being STC it is less flexible and likely more conservative timing. I am surprised it kicks back light props, it should put out a hot TDC spark for start.... but this can be an issue with EI.
__________________
George
Raleigh, NC Area
RV-4, RV-7, ATP, CFII, MEI, 737/757/767
2020 Dues Paid
Last edited by gmcjetpilot : 01-30-2020 at 04:51 AM.
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01-30-2020, 05:47 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Royse City, TX
Posts: 143
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Sam,
I am about to install a SureFly SIM4P on my RV-8 in place of my LH impulse Slick mag. I have been working with SureFly to figure out both the kick back and tach signal issues.
The kick back issue is solved the same way as with a P-Mag, time it 2-3 degrees past TDC. I was getting kick backs from the P-Mag when it was timed at TDC (Yes I have a Catto prop).
You probably wont have the same issue with your metal sensi prop.
The tach signal issue is solved using their tach board which converts the signal into a 5 VDC signal that the Dynon (and other EMS) can use.
I am over at HSV, come on over if you like.
I have already installed a SureFly on a AA5A, it was simple to install....and it even worked when we tried to start it the first time...no fire, smoke or kick backs.
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01-30-2020, 06:18 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 1,558
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Sam,
I have a new SureFly on the left, Slick mag on the right on my RV4, O-360, carbed , metal Sensenich. No kickbacks so far. One way to protect yourself is to set your start timing to 5* after TDC, and set your dip switches in the mag to 30* (assuming you have a normal 25* engine). Your engine will start like a car and you will have the same advance curve you would have if you set start timing to TDC and set dip switches to 25*.
SureFly recommends replacing the left/impulse mag due to potential impulse coupling problems. There are two Champion/Slick service bulletins (SB1-19 and SB2-19) dealing with impulse couplings coming apart and causing damage to the accessory gears and possible engine failure.
As far as a tach signal, what I did is put a UMA T1A9 sending unit on my right mag. It will show RPM regardless of p-lead position because it?s sensing the magnet in the spinning mag. I had a sensor left over after installing two Pmags on my last airplane - RV8.
I have not experienced any hesitation during runup mag check as mentioned here. I got rid of my keyed mag switch as recommended by Bob Nuckolls and installed two toggle switches instead and a push button starter.
__________________
SH
RV6/2001 built/sold 2005
RV8 Fastback/2008 built/sold 2015
RV4/bought 2016/sold/2017
RV8/2018 built/Sold(sadly)
RV4/bought 2019 Flying
Cincinnati, OH/KHAO
JAN2020
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01-30-2020, 07:14 AM
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been here awhile
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: North Alabama
Posts: 4,301
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jliltd
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Jim, excellent thread with good info.....I walk on the tube and fabric side many warm, smooth summer evenings.
I'm ordering an impulse SureFly today.
Last edited by Sam Buchanan : 01-30-2020 at 07:18 AM.
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