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01-14-2020, 08:50 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Hubbard Oregon
Posts: 9,035
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph Inkster
I agree. Back in Feb 1, 2009 when Canada first activated the 406 coverage, a buddy & I were busy installing one and accidentally activated it. Wasn't too long before we got a call asking if everything was OK. We were the very first GA aircraft activation so they were keenly interested with their signal location accuracy (before GPS interconnect) as it was about 600ft radius of our location, they expected 60ft radius accuracy for the 406. When I explained we were inside a full metal hangar with doors shut, they felt much better.
The 406 antenna (thick portion at the base) is much more likely to survive even if the 121.5 (long whip portion) is mangled.
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406 Mh ELTs have had confirmed (moving) locates while traveling cross country in a UPS or Fedx truck with no antenna connected at all......
__________________
Opinions, information and comments are my own unless stated otherwise. They do not necessarily represent the direction/opinions of my employer.
Scott McDaniels
Van's Aircraft Engineering Prototype Shop Manager
Hubbard, Oregon
RV-6A (aka "Junkyard Special ")
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01-14-2020, 09:51 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 1,005
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Yes, I have a couple friends that had that happen to. New batteries required upon delivery!
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Ralph
built a few RVs, rebuilt a few more, hot rodded some, & maintained/updated a bunch more
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01-14-2020, 11:39 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Frederick, MD
Posts: 821
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Lots of comments here that apply to the old 121.5 ELT?s, and not the new 406 ELT?s. The g switch is now much more sensitive to g?s in multiple axis, therefore better at detecting crashes.
The old 121.5 frequencies are no longer monitored by satellite, or anyone other than by coincidence.
__________________
Dan Morris
Frederick, MD
PA28-140
Hph 304CZ
RV6 built and sold
N199EC RV6A flying
Learn the facts. "Democracy dies in darkness"
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01-15-2020, 08:20 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Victoria, BC, Canada
Posts: 3,932
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RVDan
I would definitely recommend a 406 ELT that takes a GPS input to provide lat/Lon to the satellite. It gets the rescuers directly to you.
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This is a bit misleading, as the GPS has to be active when the ELT activates in order to get the GPS location included. So now you have to worry about where your GPS antenna is mounted. On the roof, pointing at the ground after a turnover? No GPS signal. On the belly, where it can't get a signal *without* a turnover? Maybe not ideal. Unless the GPS is powered and locked in before you go down, it won't necessarily help.
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Rob Prior
1996 RV-6 "Tweety" C-FRBP (formerly N196RV)
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01-15-2020, 09:13 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Sunman, IN
Posts: 2,189
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Not true
Quote:
Originally Posted by RVDan
Lots of comments here that apply to the old 121.5 ELT’s, and not the new 406 ELT’s. The g switch is now much more sensitive to g’s in multiple axis, therefore better at detecting crashes.
The old 121.5 frequencies are no longer monitored by satellite, or anyone other than by coincidence.
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Although not officially monitored there are thousands of airliners and GA aircraft that monitor 121.5 every day...
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Bob
Aerospace Engineer '88
RV-10
Structure - 90% Done
Cabin Top - Aaarrghhh...
EFII System 32 - Done
297 HP Barrett Hung
ShowPlanes Cowl with Skybolts Fitted - Beautiful
Wiring...
Dues+ Paid 2019,...Thanks DR+
Last edited by rocketman1988 : 01-15-2020 at 09:15 AM.
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01-15-2020, 09:13 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Hubbard Oregon
Posts: 9,035
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowflake
This is a bit misleading, as the GPS has to be active when the ELT activates in order to get the GPS location included. So now you have to worry about where your GPS antenna is mounted. On the roof, pointing at the ground after a turnover? No GPS signal. On the belly, where it can't get a signal *without* a turnover? Maybe not ideal. Unless the GPS is powered and locked in before you go down, it won't necessarily help.
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If the ELT gets activated, it will transmit the last GPS position that it was issued.
If I understand correctly, the +12V connection that some ELT's have is part of that system (buffering the GPS position), and that once activation occurs the last issued position becomes what is encoded on the ELT transmission (the 12V is no longer needed).
So even if the GPS is no longer functioning there will still be an encoded position that would provide a much higher level of position detail than without.
__________________
Opinions, information and comments are my own unless stated otherwise. They do not necessarily represent the direction/opinions of my employer.
Scott McDaniels
Van's Aircraft Engineering Prototype Shop Manager
Hubbard, Oregon
RV-6A (aka "Junkyard Special ")
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01-15-2020, 09:23 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA
Posts: 232
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MEOSAR compatible?
At OSH last year I went to a talk from a NASA guy that leads the Search and Rescue stuff. He talked basically the whole time about their new satellite constellation MEOSAR which is in medium earth orbit.
At that time I recall he said there was 1 PLB manufacturer that was producing a compatible transmitter. Have the ELT companies caught up yet?
NASA MEOSAR info
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01-15-2020, 10:54 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Victoria, BC, Canada
Posts: 3,932
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rvbuilder2002
If the ELT gets activated, it will transmit the last GPS position that it was issued.
If I understand correctly, the +12V connection that some ELT's have is part of that system (buffering the GPS position), and that once activation occurs the last issued position becomes what is encoded on the ELT transmission (the 12V is no longer needed).
So even if the GPS is no longer functioning there will still be an encoded position that would provide a much higher level of position detail than without.
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So the GPS is powered full-time during flight, even when not needed? Interesting. That's news to me.
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Rob Prior
1996 RV-6 "Tweety" C-FRBP (formerly N196RV)
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01-15-2020, 10:58 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Frederick, MD
Posts: 821
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowflake
So the GPS is powered full-time during flight, even when not needed? Interesting. That's news to me.
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Some ELT?s use internal GPS and others use data from your GPS navigator. The answer to your question is yes, in both cases.
__________________
Dan Morris
Frederick, MD
PA28-140
Hph 304CZ
RV6 built and sold
N199EC RV6A flying
Learn the facts. "Democracy dies in darkness"
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01-15-2020, 11:29 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 1,346
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unitink72
At OSH last year I went to a talk from a NASA guy that leads the Search and Rescue stuff. He talked basically the whole time about their new satellite constellation MEOSAR which is in medium earth orbit.
At that time I recall he said there was 1 PLB manufacturer that was producing a compatible transmitter. Have the ELT companies caught up yet?
NASA MEOSAR info
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The MEOSARs monitor 406, so not sure what he was talking about, unless it was 2nd gen ELTs (ED-62B / DO-204B). Those would be rare, because (TTBOMK) there are no labs currently certified to test to C/S T.018. 2nd gen ELTs have more sophisticated g-sensor requirements and transmission parameters. (the NASA crash tests I mentioned earlier supported the ED-62B working group activities related to g-sensor specifications and installation guidance.)
The MEOSARS provide a much faster ELT activation detection due to the number of satellites. That is a very good thing, especially if the plane is burning.
__________________
Mike W
Venice, FL
RV-6A. Mattituck TMX O-360, FP, GRT Sport EFIS, L3 Lynx NGT-9000
N164WM
N184WM reserved (RV-8)....finishing kit in progress. Titan IOX-370
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