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11-21-2019, 06:13 AM
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Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Calgary, Canada
Posts: 5,766
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While there seems to be widespread acceptance of using external regulators here on VAF, I'm going to stay with my genuine Denso IR alternator given that they haven't used external regs for about 3 decades now in cars and I have around 35,000+ hours personally on them with zero failures except for brushes wearing down to nothing after something like 5000 hours on one of them after 20 years of use.
I also used to own an auto repair shop in the past, with most customers driving Toyotas equipped ND alternators. Never saw a regulator failure on those hundreds of vehicles either.
Denso puts tens of millions into research, QC and testing their alternators and they are the #1 choice in the world for top auto brands with hundreds of millions of units made. They can't afford reg failures in modern cars loaded with electronics.
If Denso thought external regs were more reliable, they'd still be using them.
I don't buy the fact that some low volume, relatively untested external reg is more reliable than what ND offers.
Alternator brands made for aircraft which are sometimes failing in 25-100 hours are clearly not well designed or well made when modern ND alternators frequently exceed 5000 hours with zero maintenance in that time.
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11-21-2019, 12:25 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rv6ejguy
While there seems to be widespread acceptance of using external regulators here on VAF, I'm going to stay with my genuine Denso IR alternator given that they haven't used external regs for about 3 decades now in cars and I have around 35,000+ hours personally on them with zero failures except for brushes wearing down to nothing after something like 5000 hours on one of them after 20 years of use.....
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Agree, but some people are heck bent on external VR's. The B&C external regulator is not really anything to justify a $180 price tag. I am running Denso IR Alternator.
__________________
George
Raleigh, NC Area
RV-4, RV-7, ATP, CFII, MEI, 737/757/767
2020 Dues Paid
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11-21-2019, 12:37 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: 8I3
Posts: 3,564
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In addition all the correct reasoning Ross mentions, just want to add there is an additional very good reason why the regulator should be mounted on the alternator itself: to thermally sense the alternator. Internally regulated alternators limit current output when the alternator gets hot to prevent damage to the alternator. An acquaintance of mine was on the engineering team that developed the first IR regulator for GM in the 70's and cited this reason for the change, in addition to lowering the parts count.
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Please don't PM me! Email only!
Bob Japundza CFI A&PIA
N9187P PA-24-260B Comanche, flying
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N244BJ RV-6 "victim of SNF tornado" 1200+ hrs, rebuilding
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Not a thing I own is stock.
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11-21-2019, 12:44 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Savannah, GA
Posts: 1,029
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Here?s a question then... since it seems auto alternators are generally a viable solution for belt-driven applications... what about accessory pad alternators? Are there automotive alternatives or are we stuck paying the airplane tax for the fancy case and gear drive?
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RV-7ER - finishing kit and systems installation
There are two kinds of fool in the world. The first says "this is old, and therefore good"; the second says "this is new, and therefore better".
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11-21-2019, 06:35 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Floyds Knobs, IN
Posts: 633
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Any easy primer on going with a small IR alternator from a 14129 type Denso and a Ford type regulator?
Mine is the Zeftronics with internal OV relay, so I assume the Perhelion replacement and current switch (off down, batt center Alt field on up) and field 5 amp circuit breaker all stay?
__________________
RV-6, bought from builder.
O-320, slider, carb, mags, FP
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11-22-2019, 12:01 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA
Posts: 232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmcjetpilot
Save yourself the trouble, buy a modern VR. Google: "Transpo V1200 voltage regulator", for about $60 (B&C = $180).
V1200 - Voltage Regulator, 12 Volt, B-Circuit, 14.2 Volt Set Point, For Universal Applications
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I really like the idea of this regulator paired with the Dodge Van alternator.
Bob Nuckolls' comment on it was that the design of its overvoltage monitor are unknown. He said some just illuminate a light, and thats it. Wondering if anyone has dissected one of these to find out how they are designed, or tested them out. Anyone ever heard of a failure of this regulator?
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11-22-2019, 07:47 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Huntsville, AL
Posts: 19
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Alternator Alternatives?
I'm trying to find an alternator for my 6 hoping to find an option where I can just walk in and find one in stock. I'm replacing a Duralast 14184, 70s & early 80s Honda. Any ideas? ANOTHER question... Is rotation direction really an issue? I've read the only difference is the cooling fan blades which I am hoping isn't an issue with direct-blow cooling (would remove fan blades anyway). Thoughts?
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11-22-2019, 09:14 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: coupeville wa
Posts: 134
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Alternator reliability
Generally agree with Ross?s comments. Denso has the best reputation for performance and reliability and I could well imagine that they spent big bucks on their development and CQI (continuous quality improvement) programs. Putting the regulator in the alternator does have advantages from a production viewpoint (lower parts count, big reduction in wiring, easier troubleshooting and service replacement among others) but the same quality of regulator remotely mounted out of the vibration and temperature cycling and peak temperature environment will be more reliable. So from a design viewpoint if the failure rate of the alternator is equally balanced between the electronics and the rotating components and both are going to make the useful lifetime of the vehicle design, objectives have been met - and that is where Denso seems to be. They have the weight of very high production volumes pushing them to stay on the pinnacle of design and production excellence. I looked for a spline driven equivalent to the B&C but have not found one. Suspect the only options for the spline drive alt have an airplane price and need an external regulator.
KT
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11-22-2019, 09:32 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Dublin, CA
Posts: 1,261
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Tom,
Why don?t you just replace your Duralast 14184 with the same one from Autozone? They have a lifetime warrantee.
__________________
Ray Tonks
2020 Donation Paid
Titan IOX-370, Dual PMAGs, 9.6:1 Pistons, FM-150
RV-7 Fuselage in progress
* Cabin Interior - In progress
RV-7 SB Wings
* Both Wings fully skinned
* Fuel Tanks Complete - No leaks finally
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* Flaps Complete
RV-7 Empennage - Complete (a little fiberglass work left)
Vans Training Kit # 2 - Complete
RV-7 Preview Plans
Vans Training Kit #1 - Complete
EAA Sheet Metal Class - Complete
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11-22-2019, 10:06 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Schaumburg, IL
Posts: 5,297
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rv6ejguy
While there seems to be widespread acceptance of using external regulators here on VAF, I'm going to stay with my genuine Denso IR alternator given that they haven't used external regs for about 3 decades now in cars and I have around 35,000+ hours personally on them with zero failures except for brushes wearing down to nothing after something like 5000 hours on one of them after 20 years of use.
I also used to own an auto repair shop in the past, with most customers driving Toyotas equipped ND alternators. Never saw a regulator failure on those hundreds of vehicles either.
Denso puts tens of millions into research, QC and testing their alternators and they are the #1 choice in the world for top auto brands with hundreds of millions of units made. They can't afford reg failures in modern cars loaded with electronics.
If Denso thought external regs were more reliable, they'd still be using them.
I don't buy the fact that some low volume, relatively untested external reg is more reliable than what ND offers.
Alternator brands made for aircraft which are sometimes failing in 25-100 hours are clearly not well designed or well made when modern ND alternators frequently exceed 5000 hours with zero maintenance in that time.
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While I agree that the quality of the VR is far more important than where it is placed, the challenge is that this removes almost all less expensive, rebuilt alternators. The rebuild process likely removes the OEM VR and replace it with a cheap aftermarket VR.
Any ideas where we can find affordable, ORIGINAL ND alternators or factory rebuilts? Especially in the smaller case sizes.
Larry
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N64LR - RV-6A / IO-320, Flying as of 8/2015
N11LR - RV-10, Flying as of 12/2019
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