VansAirForceForums  
Home > VansAirForceForums

- POSTING RULES
- Donate yearly (please).
- Advertise in here!

- Today's Posts | Insert Pics


Go Back   VAF Forums > Main > RV General Discussion/News
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-18-2019, 08:36 AM
LRingeisen's Avatar
LRingeisen LRingeisen is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Chesterfield, MO
Posts: 95
Default DID YOU KNOW insurance companies use your application as a contract for the policy?

When a new policy is bound, it is important to complete the application as accurately as possible. By signing it, you are certifying that all of the information is true and correct. If you notice something incorrect on the application, it is important to contact your broker right away. Since every aviation policy has to be manually renewed, gathering updated information is important (updated hours, major traffic violations such as DUIs, etc.). If you decide to stay with the same company, it?s possible that the insurance company will not require a new application; however, it is your responsibility to make sure the information is updated. Depending on the company, an application can be held on file for a couple of years; however, if you change companies at the renewal, a new application will need to be completed.

Incorrect information given on an application can result in a claim being denied and just another reminder?

Any person who knowingly and with intent to defraud any insurance company or other person files an application for insurance or statement of claim containing any materially false information or, conceals, for the purpose of misleading, information concerning any fact material thereto, commits a fraudulent act, which is a crime, and subjects such person to criminal and civil penalties.
__________________
Leah Ringeisen, Shanna Linton, Katie Escalante & Kim Schuler
Gallagher Aviation
877-475-5860
Arthur J. Gallagher Risk Management Services, Inc.
(Formerly NationAir Aviation Insurance)
www.ajg.com/lightaircraft / www.ajg.com
Opinions and advice provided by Arthur J. Gallagher & Co. is not intended to be, and should not be construed to be, legal advice. Please direct any request for legal advice to your attorney.
*paid advertiser
  #2  
Old 11-18-2019, 10:41 AM
Noah's Avatar
Noah Noah is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Rhode Island
Posts: 937
Default

Let's say you are filling out the application but your logbooks are at the hangar, so you estimate your hours in the last year and your total time. For argument's sake let's say you could be off by +/- 10-15 hrs.

Are you saying that could result in denial of a claim?
__________________
Highest Regards,

Noah F, RV-7A

All men dream, but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find that it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men? for they may act their dream with open eyes, to make it possible. -T.E. Lawrence
  #3  
Old 11-18-2019, 01:06 PM
LRingeisen's Avatar
LRingeisen LRingeisen is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Chesterfield, MO
Posts: 95
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noah View Post
Let's say you are filling out the application but your logbooks are at the hangar, so you estimate your hours in the last year and your total time. For argument's sake let's say you could be off by +/- 10-15 hrs.

Are you saying that could result in denial of a claim?
That would depend on the situation. For example, if you have 0 make and model time but you said you have 10, that would be an issue. On the other hand, if you have 800 but said you have 810, it's not going to make a difference.

The key is to make sure you are meeting the minimum number of hours required by your insurance company. Provided that you have met the minimum, estimating your time is fine.

The main reason for updating your hours as a higher time pilot would be to take advantage of possible lower rates.
__________________
Leah Ringeisen, Shanna Linton, Katie Escalante & Kim Schuler
Gallagher Aviation
877-475-5860
Arthur J. Gallagher Risk Management Services, Inc.
(Formerly NationAir Aviation Insurance)
www.ajg.com/lightaircraft / www.ajg.com
Opinions and advice provided by Arthur J. Gallagher & Co. is not intended to be, and should not be construed to be, legal advice. Please direct any request for legal advice to your attorney.
*paid advertiser
  #4  
Old 11-18-2019, 01:15 PM
rocketman1988 rocketman1988 is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Sunman, IN
Posts: 2,189
Default question

"...That would depend on the situation. For example, if you have 0 make and model time but you said you have 10, that would be an issue..."

I'm curious as to how you check the validity of the estimated times as you are not required to maintain a logbook except pertaining to ratings being sought...

Just a question in reference to the "...depends on the situation..." part of the statement...
__________________
Bob
Aerospace Engineer '88

RV-10
Structure - 90% Done
Cabin Top - Aaarrghhh...
EFII System 32 - Done
297 HP Barrett Hung
ShowPlanes Cowl with Skybolts Fitted - Beautiful
Wiring...

Dues+ Paid 2019,...Thanks DR+
  #5  
Old 11-18-2019, 01:30 PM
McStevens McStevens is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: Edmonds, WA
Posts: 105
Default

Of course they can use any discrepancy as basis for denial, intentional or not, as that then voids your policy contract. Whether they choose to is up to them and the reputation they want to have.

I'm sure aircraft policies have the same language about how you "must cooperate and provide any information requested" for a claim. So the second you balk at an invasive analysis of every aspect and record of your flying, oop... claim denied.

I also think it's unlikely this warning comes out of the blue, something happened to prompt it.

ETA: Washington State residents, we have some pretty policy holder friendly laws, it's probably worth it to understand your rights. Turns out insurers break the law quite often, seemingly as a matter of policy in some cases.

Last edited by McStevens : 11-18-2019 at 01:36 PM. Reason: Info for WA residents
  #6  
Old 11-18-2019, 01:41 PM
isosceles isosceles is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Fremont
Posts: 59
Default

Yet another reason to self-insure (besides to stop paying for the insurance company overheads)
  #7  
Old 11-18-2019, 02:46 PM
LRingeisen's Avatar
LRingeisen LRingeisen is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Chesterfield, MO
Posts: 95
Default

The posts that we make on the forum are made to be educational/informational. Sometimes, something prompts us to discuss a certain topic (tighter underwriting guidelines/increasing premiums), but most of the time, we are trying to find a subject that will interest Vans aircraft owners. We want to provide as much information that we can so that everyone has a better understanding of how aviation insurance works.

Aviation claims are the same as your home or auto except most companies try not to deny claims because it is a much smaller market. If you are doing something illegal or if you purposely lied on the application, the claim can be declined.

The discussion about the hours was geared more toward low time or transitional pilots. If you have a claim, it's possible that the insurance company request your logbook. We request updated information from our insureds at renewal by sending them an application or reminding them that it is their responsibility to update us with any information needed.
__________________
Leah Ringeisen, Shanna Linton, Katie Escalante & Kim Schuler
Gallagher Aviation
877-475-5860
Arthur J. Gallagher Risk Management Services, Inc.
(Formerly NationAir Aviation Insurance)
www.ajg.com/lightaircraft / www.ajg.com
Opinions and advice provided by Arthur J. Gallagher & Co. is not intended to be, and should not be construed to be, legal advice. Please direct any request for legal advice to your attorney.
*paid advertiser
  #8  
Old 11-18-2019, 02:59 PM
rocketman1988 rocketman1988 is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Sunman, IN
Posts: 2,189
Default Educational

Yes that all makes sense...however...the point of my question is how is the validity of the application checked when a logbook is NOT required except pertaining to ratings sought.

Example: Private Pilot with Instrument. No intention of going further so no further logbook is required. 5 years later, a claim is filed and the insurance company requests the logbook...which will show experience up to the instrument rating and no more.

It becomes a case of the pilot's word versus the insurance company...any bets if the claim is denied?

Sorry, a bit pessimistic about insurance claims as I am familiar with a denied claim do to one small sentence in a very long policy...that cost the policy holder a C-172RG...
__________________
Bob
Aerospace Engineer '88

RV-10
Structure - 90% Done
Cabin Top - Aaarrghhh...
EFII System 32 - Done
297 HP Barrett Hung
ShowPlanes Cowl with Skybolts Fitted - Beautiful
Wiring...

Dues+ Paid 2019,...Thanks DR+
  #9  
Old 11-18-2019, 05:00 PM
Pilotjim77 Pilotjim77 is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: CHESHIRE, MA
Posts: 226
Default

Couldn't you use some other way to show flight time to an insurer (aircraft hours, fuel receipts, flightaware records, etc.)?
__________________
Jim

Purchased July 2019: RV-6 0320 Whirlwind Ground Adjustable Prop

"We can porpoises?" -- Leo Farnsworth
  #10  
Old 11-18-2019, 05:07 PM
rocketman1988 rocketman1988 is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Sunman, IN
Posts: 2,189
Default Like...

I guess when it comes right down to it, having a logbook showing specific time in the insured type is the ONLY way to avoid the insurance company from denying the claim based on experience...

The other ways suggested are no more valid than just saying, ? I have xx hours in this type.? Anyone could have flown the Hobbs time, the flight aware record etc.

Again, just bad experience with insurance claims. Seems like you pay, pay, pay and then when it?s their turn, they don?t want to...
__________________
Bob
Aerospace Engineer '88

RV-10
Structure - 90% Done
Cabin Top - Aaarrghhh...
EFII System 32 - Done
297 HP Barrett Hung
ShowPlanes Cowl with Skybolts Fitted - Beautiful
Wiring...

Dues+ Paid 2019,...Thanks DR+
Closed Thread


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:16 AM.


The VAFForums come to you courtesy Delta Romeo, LLC. By viewing and participating in them you agree to build your plane using standardized methods and practices and to fly it safely and in accordance with the laws governing the country you are located in.