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  #11  
Old 11-03-2019, 09:40 AM
wirejock's Avatar
wirejock wirejock is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Estes Park, CO
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Default Mentor

Daniel
There are lots of experienced builders around Austin. I'm originally from Austin. 30 years. Locate one willing to be your Mentor. Spnd some quality time learning how to do it right. Don't waste time trying to teach yourself.
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Larry Larson
Estes Park, CO
http://wirejockrv7a.blogspot.com
wirejock at yahoo dot com
Donated 12/03/2019, plus a little extra.
RV-7A #73391, N511RV reserved (2,000+ hours)
HS SB, empennage, tanks, wings, fuse, working finishing kit
Disclaimer
I cannot be, nor will I be, held responsible if you try to do the same things I do and it does not work and/or causes you loss, injury, or even death in the process.
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  #12  
Old 11-03-2019, 10:56 AM
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HAL Pilot HAL Pilot is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Las Vegas NV
Posts: 146
Default

If your drilling the holes There's a possibility that the end result is a bit larger than a true #40 hole. You can always start with a next size down drill bit and then a #40 reamer to get a nicer hole. But either way the dimpling process does enlarge the hole you started with. I have found on the RV-14 pre-punched holes if I deburr them as is and then dimple without enlarging to #40 the dimpled hole is a bit smaller and the rivet/cleco's fit better.

On a related issue I have found that dimpled holes because they are bigger than the rivet, will result in a bit of wobble with the rivet. this makes for a higher probability of driving the rivet at an angle and having to remove it. Pre-squeezing the rivet with a pneumatic squeezer to make it fatter by a bit results in less rivets having to be drilled out.

If you have had to remove rivets the hole tends to be a bit bigger from the riveting process and removal so a pre-squeezed rivet (sometimes the next longer size) will also help from multiple removals of the same rivet.

If I had it to do again I would have completely disassembled and re build the tool box kit and aileron training kit at least once each. Makes for great practice all the way around. You will need to know how to remove rivets and deal with stubborn larger holes.

Yes Oops rivets work but I save those for my 3rd or 4th attempt at fixing a stubborn rivet.

Good luck
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  #13  
Old 11-03-2019, 01:54 PM
danielweberdlc danielweberdlc is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Austin
Posts: 8
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I don't have a full drill set, but I do have a 7/64" bit. It is very tight in the 3/32" dimples and passes easily into the substructure dimples.

I used a micrometer to measure the holes:

drilled hole measured .094"
3/32" dimple hole measures ~.105"
substructure dimple measures ~.108"

so if the #40 drill bit is correct at .098 I'm measuring about .004 small. 7/64" is .1094, which puts the substructure dimples at about .112, which checks.

I tried a bunch of cleco as well and some would hold and other wouldn't. I bought the cleco brand new from ATS so I would think they'd be ok, but there's definitely variation in holding power among them.

The AD3 rivets seem pretty sloppy in the dimpled holes to my eye, but I have no idea how much slop there should be.

Probably should just join a local chapter now that I'm practicing. I signed up for the EAA sheet metal class in Houston Dec 14-15 and maybe they'll be able to straighten me out.
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  #14  
Old 11-03-2019, 02:10 PM
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wirejock wirejock is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Estes Park, CO
Posts: 3,947
Default Clekos

Specs sound correct. Personally, I only used substructure dies if there was a third layer. Tank dies were used on the second layer. Thousands of RVs have been built with just #40 skin dies.
I still think the issue is Clekolok clekos. Borrow a Wedgelock and I bet you'll see the difference. In the meantime, grab a handful of 4-40 nuts and use them on the inside to keep the cleko from popping out. I bought a box and drilled them all #40. They come in handy. Used them on the tanks. Thankfully my bucket of Clekolock clekos is no longer used. I plan to sell them cheap when my bird is done.
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Larry Larson
Estes Park, CO
http://wirejockrv7a.blogspot.com
wirejock at yahoo dot com
Donated 12/03/2019, plus a little extra.
RV-7A #73391, N511RV reserved (2,000+ hours)
HS SB, empennage, tanks, wings, fuse, working finishing kit
Disclaimer
I cannot be, nor will I be, held responsible if you try to do the same things I do and it does not work and/or causes you loss, injury, or even death in the process.
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  #15  
Old 11-03-2019, 02:43 PM
danielweberdlc danielweberdlc is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Austin
Posts: 8
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Well, I guess that's what I get for buying sale item cleco's

Luckily I only bought 60 for the training kit. I'll order the better ones from Cleaveland next week and see if that helps.
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  #16  
Old 11-04-2019, 01:31 PM
jwellman jwellman is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Pflugerville
Posts: 14
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Not sure where you're at but I'm in Pflugerville and have some Wedgelocks if you'd like to give them a shot.

My initial batch of Clekos came with my tool kit purchase from Isham, second set came direct from Van's and they seem by far the worst (also branded Clekolock). The 3rd batch were WedgeLocks and the difference is pretty notable (as it should be as they're significantly more!). The ones from Isham seemed in the middle of the two. But the ones from Van's almost seemed defective with a lot of the "points" being misshaped.

If you want to try the WedgeLocks out before you make a decent investment in Clekos let me know.

Jared
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  #17  
Old 11-04-2019, 03:57 PM
PilotjohnS PilotjohnS is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Southwest
Posts: 1,119
Default Just me

I would not use substructure dies... too many people had too many problems. Substructure dies seem to be a bit of overthinking. I bought my clecos from Browns Tool and they are Boeing quality; never had an issue.
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WARNING! Information presented in this post is my opinion. All users of info have sole responsibility for determining accuracy or suitability for their use.

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  #18  
Old 11-04-2019, 04:51 PM
danielweberdlc danielweberdlc is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Austin
Posts: 8
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I live south but I work in Cedar Park - maybe we can meet for lunch sometime and I can show you the progress I've made on the practice kit (or lack thereof).
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  #19  
Old 11-04-2019, 06:34 PM
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wirejock wirejock is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Estes Park, CO
Posts: 3,947
Default Help

Quote:
Originally Posted by danielweberdlc View Post
I live south but I work in Cedar Park - maybe we can meet for lunch sometime and I can show you the progress I've made on the practice kit (or lack thereof).
Daniel
I will be in Austin for two weeks around Thanksgiving. Happy to help if you still need. I will be staying in Buda. Feel free to send a e-mail. Address is in my signature below.
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Larry Larson
Estes Park, CO
http://wirejockrv7a.blogspot.com
wirejock at yahoo dot com
Donated 12/03/2019, plus a little extra.
RV-7A #73391, N511RV reserved (2,000+ hours)
HS SB, empennage, tanks, wings, fuse, working finishing kit
Disclaimer
I cannot be, nor will I be, held responsible if you try to do the same things I do and it does not work and/or causes you loss, injury, or even death in the process.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 11-05-2019, 11:02 PM
jwellman jwellman is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Pflugerville
Posts: 14
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Shoot me a PM and maybe we can meet up. I work central. I?ll dig through the clecos and find a couple of wedgelocks to hand off for you to try if you want to meet up.

Jared
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