Plane-Power vs B&C (2019) also: Parts info wanted

[Bavafa]

I remember years ago when I talked to them to learn more, they pointed out the "three attachment points" that they had learned as a factor for longevity/reliability.
I would be very interested if the newer alternator which I also have in my 14A will have the same reliability as the last one.

[Walt]

B&C still carries the "original" L-40 which is what I continue to run, until the newer units prove their reliability I'll stick with the good old 40 amp unit plus you save a little weight as well.

[Captain Avgas]

I have 2 B&Cs on my RV7A, an L40 up front and a 20amp unit on the accessory case. Both units 460 hours without any problem at all. And I have dual busses with my 20 amp unit running during normal operations.
I remember when I spoke to Bill Bainbridge at Oshkosh in 2006 he said B&C dynamically balances every alternator before it goes out the door. Bill struck me as very knowledgeable and a person of good integrity so I bought his products. So far so good.

[vic syracuse]

[quote=TimO;1382916]Ok, here's some pics and info.

First, comments:

Vic, I hear ya. The thing is, your data point probably isn't worth anything in the discussion. (ABSOLUTELY no insult intended) The reason? Well, your B&C being 10 years old isn't the same model as what they sell today.

None taken; however I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss a company that has had great products for a very long time in a a specific area that we seem to have some concerns for reliability. I've been installing the new ones for a few years now on customers' airplanes with no problems. I even have one of the newer backup alternators on mine.

Still seeing the same great reliability.

Vic

[BillL]

Tim Did you get my email?

BTW - look at the clocking of the adjustment arm lug vs the attachment lug for the B&C. That clocking is the same as the units rocket bob promotes. 180 deg.

Now, note the PP. The adjustment arm is rotated maybe 15 deg to allow a straight adjustment arm. Not necessarily better, but it shows the front housing difference. The PP housing has the same clocking as the '95 tercel, but the bearings, in particular, are not at all the same.

I have found that even if they look the same on the exterior the bearings can be much different. The Tercel bearings are much larger than the PP. The rotor, died bridge, and stator are the same though. I have a new set of Tercel bearings if someone needs them.

The SRE housings seem to be the same for the B&C and PP.

The stator retention bolts - both alternators have two (2). That bolt has a nut holding the cases together.

[chaskuss]

Tim,
The old Nippon Denso alternators with the round 3 terminal connector in the rear were used up to the 1992 model year. The oval 3 pin connector with the reduced width pins, started in the 1993 model year. I believe on most cars that connector style lasted for less than 10 years. There's no hard-and-fast year cutoff as different manufacturers used that connector for different lengths of time. So while that connector is newer than the old round style, it is nowhere near the newest style Nippondenso automotive alternator. In the automotive world to save money & to save weight, they've been making fuses and electrical connectors smaller and smaller over the years. This reduction in connector size has not been without pitfalls. The rate of problems with poor connections on the smaller connectors has gone up over the years.
There is another option however. You actually can have your cake and eat it too, sort of. It has nothing to do with B&C or PlanePower. During the 1990s Nippondenso actually did have one automotive customer who wanted a high output, quality Nippondenso alternator that would use an external voltage regulator. That customer was Chrysler Corporation. So if you want to have a Nippondenso alternator that's externally regulated but you don't have to do surgery on, go to your local favorite auto parts store and order an alternator for a 1995 Dodge half ton van. These trucks came with a V6 and V8 engine option. Engine doesn't matter. Both the V6 and V8 were available with a 90 AMP or 120 amp alternator. You want the 90 AMP unit as the 120 amp unit is considerably more expensive. These alternators are physically and externally similar to the 70 amp alternator that you used to have on your RV 10. The one difference is there's no internal voltage regulator. Where other Nippondenso alternators have a voltage regulator, these Chrysler units have a terminal block with two studs for wires to go to your external voltage regulator. On the original trucks the external voltage regulator was actually built into the PCM aka engine computer. Chrysler installed a temperature sensor under the battery so that the computer could monitor battery temperature and modify the field voltage to compensate for a battery that was getting too warm.
Now you have an alternator that you can purchase with a lifetime warranty and not have to void the warranty to obtain external voltage regulation. One modification will need to be done however. This won't void the warranty as its external and you can ask the guys at the parts store to do it for you. You need to swap the serpentine belt pulley that comes on these alternators for the V belt pulley that you need. The guys behind the counter at the Big Chain stores are usually more than happy to do this for you. Save the original pulley, so that if you have to make a warranty claim, you can swap the original pulley back on. You'll need your V belt pulley to install on its new replacement anyway.
I can tell you that B&C completely strips thier alternators down. That's because that golden color indicates that they Alodine the alternator cases while it's apart. That's a nice touch to help prevent corrosion without holding in heat or adding weight. The PlanePower alternator in your photos has been painted silver, as are most Automotive remans.

Charlie

[TimO]

Some more good replies, thanks all. I don't have any issue with B&C or Plane-Power alternators, as far as companies go, so it's not that I'm actually uncomfortable with either. Personally, I think any of these options are OK. I'm just questioning if they're ideal. Charlie's post kind of illustrates that with his discussion of the connector type being used. I'm sure that either company can have good reliability, and it depends on many factors, some require the builder to use their skills properly too.

I do like Charlie's info about the Chrysler alternator. It's too bad someone doesn't make a boss mount kit for those, so that you could just buy the boss mount kit, and buy the alternator and pair that with a B&C regulator. That actually sounds like a great way to go.

But, right now, I own 4 plane power alternators, and 4 B&C alternators, and I'm going to be installing the B&C, whether it leads to better reliability or not. I always laugh when someone says they've had good luck with XYZ's component, and it's been going strong now for over 380 hours. To me, if you don't have 1000 hours on the product without failure, you can't really speak to reliability. Certainly not less than 500. People like Vic, who have tons of time on components, are the ones who have the reports I trust the most. I've got that many hours on my PlanePower 70A, but no other product, which is why I've got the questions I do, not answers.

Actually, I would like to modify my statement just slightly on my views on the vendors. Like I said, I really don't have any issue with Plane-Power or B&C. B&C has a great reputation and they deserve it. But, if there's one thing that does turn me off a little, it's the fact that I can't even buy a brush set for their alternator. You can buy one for the Plane-Power from Aircraft Spruce. I wish they'd consider selling those parts. I'm not traveling without spares, so that forces me to open one up, find out what part I need, and order it elsewhere, which is not something that makes me happy. Other than that, I think the company does a great job, and I trust their product. I think I will also carry a spare connector plug, so my carry along spares would be a bearing, a brush kit, and a connector. If I'm out of the 48 states, I don't want to be stuck for a few days with no way to get home.

The point from Walt is also good on the L-40. I myself would rather stick with 60A even though I don't need more than 40, but, I don't know that it's going to be a good option for some builders. Here's a twist that I've seen lately:

A couple of friends who've went with EarthX batteries have 60A PP alternators. When they first start up, those alternators are being pushed to their limits because the Lithium batteries are soaking up all the current they can. I see a couple of issues with this. 1) I don't think alternators really should be run to 100% capacity for very long. I'm sure it affects reliability and maybe longevity. One of my friends has had diodes go bad for sure. 2) I don't know that it's even good for the battery to be allowed to soak up that much current that quickly. People love quick charging, but even with your cell phone or your car, manufacturers now are understanding that if you want longevity out of your batteries, keep them between 20-80% capacity and avoid quick charging especially if they get hot.
Given that we're just starting to see the new batteries be used in aviation, we may start to see new trends in failures if we use smaller alternators. Time will tell I guess.

Hopefully over the next couple weeks I'll have at least one plane's alternator swapped out, and the backup alternator installed, and I will have one less concern when traveling. The backup is probably the key to reliable dispatch.

[RV10Pilot]

Charlie,
Will the Chrysler alternator fit into the B&C boss mount?

[DanH]

Originally Posted by digidocs

FWIW, I have heard that the Plane Power OEM is Unipoint. However, I haven't been able to prove or disprove that.

Certainly the VR and brushes, if not the whole alternator. https://www.unipoint.com.tw/index.php

Removed from Plane Power:

[rv6ejguy]

While Denso clones may look alike externally and even internally, they are not in fact Denso as has been pointed out in these discussions before.

Ever wonder why brands like Toyota generally use Denso and not something less expensive?

My suggestion to PP to restore past performance to present offerings, is to use genuine Denso components. The components they have been using lately were not up to snuff given the failure rates reported on VAF.

When you outsource, you best have a complete engineering review of the components, process control, QC and independent validation and testing to be sure the product meets original durability and performance or it may come back to bite you.