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  #21  
Old 09-30-2019, 02:39 PM
jrs14855 jrs14855 is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Lake Havasu City AZ
Posts: 2,393
Default Cylinders

In the 60's?? some were installing Lycoming angle valve cylinders from the GO series engines on 0 290 and 0 320 crankcases. These were all narrow deck components. After the 0 360 became available interest in the angle valve conversions diminished.
A GO 435 is essentially a six cylinder 0 290 with angle valve cylinders and gearbox. GO 480 is six 0 320 cylinders but angle valve.
The GO series engines were used on Aero Commander, Twin Bonanza and other aircraft. They were high r/m engines-3500 r/m range.
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  #22  
Old 09-30-2019, 03:58 PM
James Ball James Ball is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 39
Default Horsepower increase

Quote:
Originally Posted by scsmith View Post
James, perhaps you could comment on the likely horsepower of a O-320 with angle valve heads. Putting angle valve heads on the O-360, along with a modest increase in compression ratio, raised the rated power from 180 to 200. An 11% increase. Much of the increase is presumably from better breathing, and a small amount from the modest compression increase.

So, doing the same thing to an O-320, wouldn't we expect the horsepower to increase in about the same way? 1.11 * 160 = 177. So my guess would be in that range. If it dyno'ed at 193, I would guess that was at a higher RPM.
Your point is well taken. I cannot say why the engine got rated at 193 HP if the RPM were just 2700. At that time, ECi probably used a test club with a torque spool and then calculated corrected HP from that data. Later ECi built a water break dyno that was much more accurate.
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  #23  
Old 09-30-2019, 07:17 PM
BillL BillL is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Central IL
Posts: 5,516
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by James Ball View Post
Your point is well taken. I cannot say why the engine got rated at 193 HP if the RPM were just 2700. At that time, ECi probably used a test club with a torque spool and then calculated corrected HP from that data. Later ECi built a water break dyno that was much more accurate.
Well, the volumetric efficiency with the shorter stroke is the same a the 360 running at 2400 rpm. This might allow a touch better breathing and better power. 193 seems a little much, more than 180 seems likely. Quite an interesting component combination. Now, run it at 3000 (if the valve train will take it) and she's a winner.

Cooling should be outstanding.
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RV-7
Lord Kelvin:
“I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about,
and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you
cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge
is of a meager and unsatisfactory kind.”
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  #24  
Old 10-01-2019, 10:52 AM
chaskuss chaskuss is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: SE Florida
Posts: 1,499
Default Great Info!

Quote:
Originally Posted by James Ball View Post
snipped We did quite a bit of innovative engineering and modification work there and the angle valve 320 was one project. ECi manufactured new replacement barrels so the custom fitment and manufacture of the 320 barrel ( which is simply about 1/2" shorter than the 360 barrel ) on an angle valve head was accomplished but their standard, manufacturing processes
snipped

Since it's essentially a "hemi" combustion chamber and intake system the air flow volume that is achieved is greater than a parallel valve cylinder design.
James,
Use of GO-480 cylinders would be limited to the older "narrow" deck engines. Did ECi also manufacture "angle valve" cylinders for the wide deck 320s? I've always found the easiest way to differentiate a 320 cylinder from a 360 was to count the number of fins on the steel cylinder. A 320 will have 15 fins, a 360 has 19. This only applies to genuine Lycoming cylinders, as I don't have any experience with either Superior or ECi cylinders.
Does this hold true for the ECi units?

Is the concave in the angle valve heads deeper than on the parallel valve models?

Perspiring minds want to know

Charlie

Last edited by chaskuss : 10-01-2019 at 10:54 AM. Reason: corrected 480 model designation
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  #25  
Old 10-01-2019, 12:04 PM
deek deek is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Flathead Lake Montana - 8S1
Posts: 334
Default

The EZ community has been mixing O-360 angle valve heads with O-320 wide deck cylinders for decades instead of using the heavier O-360 parallel valve engines - keeping the narrower width across the cylinders. D series (D2J and D3G in particular) are preferred for the longer nose main journal and solid crank.

I have personal knowledge of 2 such engines, but there were/are quite a few others. Seem to be exceptionally reliable;EZ's turn 2,900+ rpm down low and "cruise" WOT 2,700 rpm at 17,500'. I don't doubt 190HP; such EZ's will run 210 KTAS all day long.

The EZ guys also found a way to fit cross-flow heads (up exhaust) ; I think they were liberated from a Navajo (?)
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Last edited by deek : 10-02-2019 at 12:22 AM.
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  #26  
Old 10-02-2019, 12:48 PM
James Ball James Ball is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 39
Default Barrel Fin Count

Quote:
Originally Posted by chaskuss View Post
James,
Use of GO-480 cylinders would be limited to the older "narrow" deck engines. Did ECi also manufacture "angle valve" cylinders for the wide deck 320s? I've always found the easiest way to differentiate a 320 cylinder from a 360 was to count the number of fins on the steel cylinder. A 320 will have 15 fins, a 360 has 19. This only applies to genuine Lycoming cylinders, as I don't have any experience with either Superior or ECi cylinders.
Does this hold true for the ECi units?

Is the concave in the angle valve heads deeper than on the parallel valve models?

Perspiring minds want to know

Charlie
Yes, ECi installed the angle valve cylinder heads on wide deck ( wide cylinder flange ) barrels.
Yes, since the ECi barrels were direct replacements for the OEM barrels, they had the same number of cooling fins.
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  #27  
Old 10-02-2019, 07:33 PM
rackley16 rackley16 is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Oceanside, California
Posts: 106
Default

As a hotrodder at heart with tons of hot rod engine background I have as many questions as Charlie.

How much different are the port locations on the parallel vs angle valve heads? Are the intake tubes the same diameter from 320 parallel vs 360 angle. Will the 360 sump fit on a 320 case, or is this even necessary to align the tubes to the angle valve port locations?

Are the combustion chamber specs different as far as volume is concerned?

I guess these questions may be better answered on the EZ forums as alluded to earlier in the thread.

That's just a small sampling of where I want to go with my education on this subject. The goal is MAYBE....180 true HP in a package the weight and size of the 320 narrow deck. Maybe even a shorter prop with a 2900 RPM speed in mind and making 190 HP........Fun to dream.

Probably not wise or feasible, but fun to think about none the less.
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  #28  
Old 10-03-2019, 03:10 AM
chaskuss chaskuss is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: SE Florida
Posts: 1,499
Default Some [but not all] answers

Quote:
Originally Posted by rackley16 View Post
snipped
Are the intake tubes the same diameter from 320 parallel vs 360 angle. Will the 360 sump fit on a 320 case, or is this even necessary to align the tubes to the angle valve port locations?
snipped
The angle valve heads [and parallel valve IO-360-M1B] have larger diameter intake tubes. The 360 sumps will fit onto 320 crankcases. Unlike the 320 & most parallel valve 360 engines, the "cold air"" sumps used on the angle valve engines do not have intake "stubs" on them. The intake tubes slide into machined holes in the sump. Sealing is done via O-rings on the tubes, to seal between the sump and tube. With this design, there is no problem getting the tubes to align with the 1/2" shorter 320 cylinders. The intake tube simply slides 1/2" deeper into the machined holes in the sump. If you'd like, contact me via PM with your email address. I can then send you some drawings that will make it easier to understand the differences.
Hopefully, James or perhaps Dan can respond to your other questions.

Charlie
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  #29  
Old 10-06-2019, 09:54 AM
theduff theduff is online now
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Fallbrook Calif.
Posts: 279
Default 320 ?Hemi?

I built a wide deck 320 with angle valve heads for a buddies RV-4 and had good luck with it. It?s still flying and doing great the last I heard. Basically I was just trying to replicate what the old ?hotrodders? did by putting GO-480 cylinders on 320?s but using modern wide deck architecture. We ran a basic 0360 Sump with custom intake tubes built by Larry Vetterman. It was originally setup with a carb but latter changed to AFP fuel injection. ECI built 5 custom cylinders for us (1 spare). I had custom pistons made that as I recall were 9.2-1 compression ratio and had the cylinders portflowed. We used an older part # cam that the hotrodders know about which makes a few more horsepower and with those mods it dyno?d in the mid 190 horsepower range. We wanted it to go into a stock RV-4 cowl but even though the width worked out we had to modify the top cowl because the angle valve heads are taller. We ran the piston cooling nozzles required on angle valves which resulted in a larger custom oil cooler installation. It was a lot of work which resulted in a unique set up. Those that question the strength of the crank and rods should note that the GO-480 uses the same journal size basically the same Rod (beams are polished) and same rod bolts. They spin 3200 rpm with the gear box slowing the prop down. The one cautionary note I would offer is that we did not use a metal constant speed prop due to the unknown torsional resonance characteristics.
In answer to the OP questions I wouldn?t shy away from the airplane based on its unique engine.
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  #30  
Old 10-06-2019, 10:08 AM
theduff theduff is online now
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Fallbrook Calif.
Posts: 279
Default 320 Hemi Dyno Sheets

I found the old dyno sheets and the results were better than I remembered.
It averaged 196 hp at 2700 rpm on several blasts.
It also pulled over 200 hp on a couple of 2800 rpm blasts.
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