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  #11  
Old 09-29-2019, 09:11 AM
Av8safe Av8safe is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Valparaiso, Indiana
Posts: 60
Default Hope to get details from ECI

Steve,

Good questions that I hope ECI will be able to answer. Am also trying to contact the builder to see what they have to say. The current owner has provided logs that do not answer your questions. Pre-buy (Vic S.) is a few weeks away so there is time to research. On paper, Vic was not concerned.

-Mitch
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  #12  
Old 09-29-2019, 09:17 AM
Av8safe Av8safe is offline
 
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Location: Valparaiso, Indiana
Posts: 60
Default Yes, it is listed as an experimental engine

The engine is listed as an ?X(I)O 320?

-Mitch
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  #13  
Old 09-29-2019, 03:30 PM
rhill rhill is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Valley Forge, Pa
Posts: 636
Default What do we really want from an engine?

For me #1 is Reliability, #2 is Longevity will this motor go 2000 hours + ? Cost of service and installation? We use a 70 year old design that has been perfected by Lycoming for its intended purpose, what is known industry wide as a mature product. In my Porsche days we would play swap parts between the 2.2,2.4,2.7 engines these engines had to be built with clay&plastigauge then taken apart to check clearances.Some of these engines ran strong,just not long. the IO crank has counter balance weights not standard on a 0320. Is this a solid flange or lightning hole flange? Connecting rods and rod bolts are completely different Angle valves require a different sump.Not all sumps will work with the A gear,new or old. Different baffle+cowl ? Once you go off track you have to keep going further off track to compensate. For me this sounds like a cobble of used parts,I don't matter but what will a potential buyer say?IMHO
RHill
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  #14  
Old 09-29-2019, 04:41 PM
scsmith scsmith is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Ashland, OR
Posts: 2,574
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rhill View Post
For me #1 is Reliability, #2 is Longevity will this motor go 2000 hours + ? Cost of service and installation? We use a 70 year old design that has been perfected by Lycoming for its intended purpose, what is known industry wide as a mature product. In my Porsche days we would play swap parts between the 2.2,2.4,2.7 engines these engines had to be built with clay&plastigauge then taken apart to check clearances.Some of these engines ran strong,just not long. the IO crank has counter balance weights not standard on a 0320. Is this a solid flange or lightning hole flange? Connecting rods and rod bolts are completely different Angle valves require a different sump.Not all sumps will work with the A gear,new or old. Different baffle+cowl ? Once you go off track you have to keep going further off track to compensate. For me this sounds like a cobble of used parts,I don't matter but what will a potential buyer say?IMHO
RHill
All this is really is an O-320 with angle-valve heads. An interesting idea really. So it is not as odd a cobbling of parts as one might image. Honestly I doubt that it would make the stated Hp at 2700 rpm, since the displacement is still 320 and the compression is 8.7. So the loads on the crank are probably not that far out of line from other O-320's, especially ones where someone has played with compression.
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  #15  
Old 09-29-2019, 05:48 PM
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RV6_flyer RV6_flyer is offline
 
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Location: NC25
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Default

This sounds like something the T18 builders were doing in the '60s. I remember reading in their newsletter about 'hot' rod engines that used cylinders from different engine.
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  #16  
Old 09-29-2019, 06:05 PM
Dreamin9 Dreamin9 is offline
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Near Buffalo, NY
Posts: 68
Default Winter protection was the question

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  #17  
Old 09-30-2019, 10:12 AM
James Ball James Ball is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 39
Default ECi

Since ECi is no longer is business ( the assets were acquired by Continental Aerospace Tech ), I will reply. I was employed there for 23 years. We did quite a bit of innovative engineering and modification work there and the angle valve 320 was one project. ECi manufactured new replacement barrels so the custom fitment and manufacture of the 320 barrel ( which is simply about 1/2" shorter than the 360 barrel ) on an angle valve head was accomplished but their standard, manufacturing processes. ECi would certainly have manufactured a new solid propeller flange 320 crankshaft for that engine. The main journal diameter is the same on both the 320 and 360 engines. The rod journal diameter is the same on most 360's too although the 360 angle valve engines that are rated at 200 HP have a larger diameter connecting rod journal diameter. Much of the increased HP comes form the design of the angle valve cylinder head. Since it's essentially a "hemi" combustion chamber and intake system the air flow volume that is achieved is greater than a parallel valve cylinder design.
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  #18  
Old 09-30-2019, 10:45 AM
RVDan RVDan is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Frederick, MD
Posts: 821
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by James Ball View Post
Since ECi is no longer is business ( the assets were acquired by Continental Aerospace Tech ), I will reply. I was employed there for 23 years. We did quite a bit of innovative engineering and modification work there and the angle valve 320 was one project. ECi manufactured new replacement barrels so the custom fitment and manufacture of the 320 barrel ( which is simply about 1/2" shorter than the 360 barrel ) on an angle valve head was accomplished but their standard, manufacturing processes. ECi would certainly have manufactured a new solid propeller flange 320 crankshaft for that engine. The main journal diameter is the same on both the 320 and 360 engines. The rod journal diameter is the same on most 360's too although the 360 angle valve engines that are rated at 200 HP have a larger diameter connecting rod journal diameter. Much of the increased HP comes form the design of the angle valve cylinder head. Since it's essentially a "hemi" combustion chamber and intake system the air flow volume that is achieved is greater than a parallel valve cylinder design.
Good info, thanks.
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  #19  
Old 09-30-2019, 12:56 PM
scsmith scsmith is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Ashland, OR
Posts: 2,574
Default

James, perhaps you could comment on the likely horsepower of a O-320 with angle valve heads. Putting angle valve heads on the O-360, along with a modest increase in compression ratio, raised the rated power from 180 to 200. An 11% increase. Much of the increase is presumably from better breathing, and a small amount from the modest compression increase.

So, doing the same thing to an O-320, wouldn't we expect the horsepower to increase in about the same way? 1.11 * 160 = 177. So my guess would be in that range. If it dyno'ed at 193, I would guess that was at a higher RPM.


Quote:
Originally Posted by James Ball View Post
Since ECi is no longer is business ( the assets were acquired by Continental Aerospace Tech ), I will reply. I was employed there for 23 years. We did quite a bit of innovative engineering and modification work there and the angle valve 320 was one project. ECi manufactured new replacement barrels so the custom fitment and manufacture of the 320 barrel ( which is simply about 1/2" shorter than the 360 barrel ) on an angle valve head was accomplished but their standard, manufacturing processes. ECi would certainly have manufactured a new solid propeller flange 320 crankshaft for that engine. The main journal diameter is the same on both the 320 and 360 engines. The rod journal diameter is the same on most 360's too although the 360 angle valve engines that are rated at 200 HP have a larger diameter connecting rod journal diameter. Much of the increased HP comes form the design of the angle valve cylinder head. Since it's essentially a "hemi" combustion chamber and intake system the air flow volume that is achieved is greater than a parallel valve cylinder design.
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Aeronautical Engineer
RV-8 N825RV
IO-360 A1A
WW 200RV
"The Magic Carpet"
Hobbs 625
LS6-15/18W sailplane SOLD
bought my old LS6-A back!!
VAF donation Jan 2020
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  #20  
Old 09-30-2019, 01:11 PM
Av8safe Av8safe is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Valparaiso, Indiana
Posts: 60
Default Thank you James Ball

James,

Thank you so much for that information, it is very helpful indeed!

Aviation, including this forum, is such a small tight- knit community it is amazing what comes back from posting a simple question. I found out I also have networking ties to the builder and will be able to connect soon for more of the backstory of the specific engine purchase history.

Thanks again!
Mitch
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