How long for rusty old pilot to transition in RV-9A?

[koupster]

I started in Pipers half a century ago, and then flew professionally in military fighters and airliners. After retirement, there was ten years with no flying. Then, in my first flight in an RV-6, ended up in a huge PIO on final. Had no trouble at all at cruise speeds, just on final.

Didn't feel really competent in the RV until I went out and did some extended slow flight at pattern speeds. Developed some feel and muscle memory for the flying qualities at slow speeds. Practice with two fingers and your thumb at the top of the stick; you'll automatically tighten your grip if you need to make vigorous control movements, but it's hard to relax your grip if you start out tight.

Cheers, David
RV-6A KBTF

[FNG]

I agree with the idle problem. My RV 9A had a high idle and was hard to slow for landing.

Also try this... just try flying about three feet above the runway and slow to 55 the 50. Don?t let it touch down by adding very little power. Do it over and over. When you can touch down at low speed (50 or so) the landing event seems to be easy- even in a crosswinds you will have good weight on the wheels and find it easy to control the direction.

In 40 years and 20000 hours I find if someone is having trouble, it is from over control, so try to make your inputs smaller as you gain skill and confidence

You?re close to starting from scratch, but you can get there with enough practice!

Good luck and have fun!

[1bigdog]

Hi Paul

It sounds like you're in good company.
I had about 140 hours and took a bit of a hiatus for 3 years then figured I could get back with no problem. Not so.

Got me a good and very patient instructor in a C172M. Did some slow flight practice to get the feel back. Trying to do this in the circuit was too busy. When I went back to the circuit it went much better. I agree with what's been said and could 5 or 25 hours. Don't try to rush it.

Be very patient with yourself. Restoring competence and confidence are 2 different things. Take lots of time to do both.

That having been said I did fly an RV-9A several times when I was still a bit more competent and found it very easy and forgiving.
When you get the basics back on something simple and predictable like a C172 the RV will be easy.

Good luck.

[Ed_Wischmeyer]

A few ideas from a distance:
* The idea of one hour per year off is new to me, but might be realistic. Depending on how you were taught initially, you might in effect need to start over;
* Fly with pressures, not with stick movement. A big help is to rest your stick arm on your leg. Not sure I agree with holding the stick at the top ? I?d emphasize no more than fingertips on the stick;
* If you approach too fast, you will float forever. When I got mine, the idle was way fast and the landing rolls were humongous. As you point out, if you add speed to compensate for a crosswind, you?ll just float longer in the flare and be susceptible to gusts;
* You might discuss with your instructor doing some overcontrol exercises ? high roll rate into steep banks, fast but smooth pitch changes. etc so that you?re familiar with the envelope around what you?re trying to fly within. That will teach you what large control movements do and hopefully help your subconscious avoid them;

If you weren?t entirely on the opposite side of the world?

Ed

[alpinelakespilot2000]

You’ll be fine. I’m guessing that if you have a solid instructor you don’t need any specific pointers from the us., He or she will help you figure it out. More likely you just need more time to get the rust off. After a 8-9 year flying hiatus while building, it took me 10 hours of tailwheel endorsement training and another 7 of RV transition training before I started flying the plane rather than it flying me. You’ll likely get the feel of it all of a sudden. Improvement doesn’t always come in linear fashion, in my experience. Hang in there.

[RV10Pilot]

Originally Posted by Ed_Wischmeyer

A few ideas from a distance:
* The idea of one hour per year off is new to me, but might be realistic. Depending on how you were taught initially, you might in effect need to start over;

From the FAA document "Conducting a Effective Flight Review" Page 2 https://www.faa.gov/pilots/training/...ght_review.pdf

[PaulvS]

Thank you all for the suggestions, it has been really helpful and enlightening to read.

I've heard of people transitioning in 2-4 hours, but this is clearly not realistic for my TT and long hiatus from flying. Based on the FAA guidance and others' experience, it could take perhaps 15-20 hours plus an equivalent amount of homework.

My current instructor is an old "ag" pilot and has a very different style to my original instructor (ex-air force 20K hours) so there is some 'transition' on that front also.

I will check the idle speed on the engine, it may well be too high; in the air I am being instructed to CLOSE THE THROTTLE even though it is already fully out. Also, on the ground, the taxi speed seems a bit fast and requires braking even at lowest idle.

The control grip that has been instructed is to lock shoulder and elbow and to rest forearm on knee and use wrist/fingers only to move the stick, holding the tube low down below the foam grip. (Presumably to avoid over-controlling.) I will check the stick position in case it is contributing to the need for so much right rudder on take-off.

I'm considering whether it is worth getting current again on a Cessna or similar, as some others have done, then transitioning to the RV after. This would mean changing to a different school/instructor, but it may be better for building up confidence. I would miss >1000 fpm ROC though!

Thanks again for the support, I really appreciate it.

[koupster]

[quote=PaulvS;1375849] [/i] Also, on the ground, the taxi speed seems a bit fast and requires braking even at lowest idle.

The control grip that has been instructed is to lock shoulder and elbow and to rest forearm on knee and use wrist/fingers only to move the stick, holding the tube low down below the foam grip. (Presumably to avoid over-controlling.)
=================================

Paul,

You're already going to check the idle speed, but make sure the engine is fully warmed up when you do, like it would be when you're landing.

Let me rephrase "hold the stick at the top". By this, I meant use the stick grip and not somewhere below it. The stick is a simple lever; holding it low will increase the force required and decrease the amount of movement. In an airplane with higher stick forces this may work. The stick forces in an RV are so light when trimmed for the speed on final that you may not be able to feel the difference when moving down low, but any movement will be amplified because you're closer to the fulcrum.

I concur with Ed, " A big help is to rest your stick arm on your leg. I’d emphasize no more than fingertips on the stick;" Notice that Ed said "leg', not "knee". I totally disagree with the " lock shoulder and elbow" technique. This will just tire you out, and possibly interfere with fine control of the fingertips. Relax the shoulder and elbow, resting your forearm on your leg
will stabilize your upper and lower arm, allowing fingertip control. Do some "chair flying" and try both techniques, and see how it works for you.

Finally, you might try flying some traffic patterns out in the practice area. This will take all the pressure associated with the flare and landing out of the picture and allow you to practice aircraft handling at pattern speeds. Just pad the pattern altitudes with the appropriate number of feet to keep you legal in OZ.

Cheers, David
RV-6A A&P

[whd721]

PaulvS,

I had a simular issue with my RV9A. I had remained current in my Cherokee 140, but had not flown a lot during the construction. My first flights were "all over the sky" with controllability issues.

My conclusion was " The RV9A is easy to fly, But very difficult to control".

Additional training in a Cessna or Piper to get better in your RV9A is like practicing for the big Sport Car race by driving around in a Pickup Truck.

The issue is the sensitive RV9A controls and your learning to manage that design feature, which is why most people love their RV's.

A very experienced RV pilot or a CFI checked out in a RV9 is your best bet to a quick transition. Fly your own RV, it is your baby.

One thing I did that helped quite a bit is to custom fit the arm rest. I used 1/4" ply wood, Comfort foam and matching fabric to build up the arm rests to my elbow height. Adjust the arm rest and seat height until your fingers are on the top of the stick and your elbow is anchored on the arm rest. That takes the bounce out of your left arm. Then fly with your fingers. My leg was too low and the arm in the air is too unstable.

[Sam Buchanan]

Let the plane fly.....and only interrupt it when necessary........

Learn how to use the trims.