Possible RV Search and Rescue (SAR) group?

[CNEJR]

Mike S.

I am not trying to offend anyone in this. The truth is that the airplane crash I spoke of could not be located from the air. I flew over the site even after I knew where it was and could not see any trace of it.

If your offended so be it. Try cremeating your brother & sister in law at a remote motuary, while the county sheriff is giving you grieve about tresspassing in a public forest because it made him look bad. While I appreciate the people who give their time, money and effort to help. I maintain "Nobody cares about your personal business & desires as much as you do." I would have been willing to give up everyday for the last twelve years to complete this search, I got lucky and found it in three days. Can you honestly tell me you would care this much? I maintain "others don't care as much."

[TSwezey]

Originally Posted by CNEJR

Mike S.

I am not trying to offend anyone in this. The truth is that the airplane crash I spoke of could not be located from the air. I flew over the site even after I knew where it was and could not see any trace of it.

If your offended so be it. Try cremeating your brother & sister in law at a remote motuary, while the county sheriff is giving you grieve about tresspassing in a public forest because it made him look bad. While I appreciate the people who give their time, money and effort to help. I maintain "Nobody cares about your personal business & desires as much as you do." I would have been willing to give up everyday for the last twelve years to complete this search, I got lucky and found it in three days. Can you honestly tell me you would care this much? I maintain "others don't care as much."

We had two boys washed out to sea in a row boat just north of Savannah. It happened a couple of years ago. But they could not find them. The were discovered off the NC coast by a fishing boat 7 days later. I swore that the day I got my -10 finished if I ever heard of such a thing I would fly my plane as much as possible to find these missing people. How as a parent or friend could you let this happen? The experts are not always experts and YOU have to try to save your friends or family. You may **** some people off but tough doodoo!
So Mike I couldn't agree with you more!

[L.Adamson]

Originally Posted by TSwezey

We had two boys washed out to sea in a row boat just north of Savannah. It happened a couple of years ago. But they could not find them. The were discovered off the NC coast by a fishing boat 7 days later. I swore that the day I got my -10 finished if I ever heard of such a thing I would fly my plane as much as possible to find these missing people. How as a parent or friend could you let this happen? The experts are not always experts and YOU have to try to save your friends or family. You may **** some people off but tough doodoo!
So Mike I couldn't agree with you more!

It's like a forest fire we've got going around here. A few guys attempted to put it out, when they said it was the size of a home. However, they were stopped by some official who demanded they wait for the "professionals". It's now killed four people, destroyed numerous homes, and still going.

There's a "low budget" movie titled "Solo" that's based on a true story of a student pilot who crashes in the mountainous country of Colorado while flying one of her cross countries in a Piper Tomahawk.

The CAP performs quite a vigilant search, but it's ultimately her husband who finds her still alive after other searchers had given up. This accident is in the NTSB reports. As I remember, inadequate leaning proceedures for high density altitude was the cause.

BTW, this movie was filmed in the mountainous areas of southern Utah and has some excellent scenery.

L.Adamson

[Ironflight]

While I certainly sympathize with your obviously true and certainly upsetting cases where individual and family SAR efforts yielded results where government-sponsored and limited searches did not, I hope that you realize just how insulting some of these comments are to the memories (and the families) of the many, many volunteer SAR people (fire, rescue, etc) that have given their lives in searches for strangers over the years. Forget about the ones that have just given countless hours of their time if you will....many searchers have just not come home.

It is easy to forget just how big of an audience you are reaching on the internet, and how many of those people have participated in activities of this kind. I personally have been at to many funerals for volunteers who were doing nothing more than what they felt was right in the name of helping someone they had never met.

I am not in any way belittling the personal trauma that you have gone through in cases where the authorities did less than what you expected....those are tragedies of a high nature. But please, don't paint with too broad a brush. The CAP and many, many other volunteer SAR organizations have way to many saves in their books to do that. In my opinion (and granted, it is just my opinion), this thread is about one specific tragic occurrence, and doesn't need to be made into a "let's bash all the incompetent SAR people" soapbox. I don't believe that is on topic for this thread, or this forum.

Just something to think about.

Paul

[ajay]

nothing against personal valor by family, friends, or CAP, but older ELT technology is grossly ineffective at providing accurate geolocation accuracies sometimes as bad as 5nm or more. The best ELT's use gps position data modulated on the 406Mhz carrier. If it is activated (and heard) extensive search can be drastically reduced when you are looking at less than 100 meter location accuracy.

I would rather have the new hiking personal locator beacon with a hand held gps interface than one of the older FAA required ELT's. Not to mention they only weigh 12 ounces. Problem is you have to be concious to activate.

ajay

[Yukon]

Bottom Line.......buy a 406 mhz / $1000 ELT.

[Mike S]

Originally Posted by CNEJR

Can you honestly tell me you would care this much? I maintain "others don't care as much."

Yes, I can.

I cant care as much as a family member, but I and others do care enough to do what we can.

This is the phrase I used in my first post, where I took offense at your line "Others just don't care enough".

Semantics, maybe, but as Limbaugh is fond of saying, words mean things.

Paul, sorry to beat this one again, after your not so gentle reminder, but I suspect you have personally seen your share of SAR incidents in your VFD time.

CNEJR, as I said before, I regret your loss. I can not experience it.

'nuff said.

Mike

[CNEJR]

Paul is right. My thread is in no way meant to bash, belittle any SAR, it is simply to note, that your personal desire & determination can make a difference. This is the very spirit that each SAR member finds in himself when he puts on his boots to go search. My only complaint lays with the "sheriff of that county", who made me do my search on a covert basis and threaten me with jail after being sucessful. His attitude & leadership was lacking as evidenced by the press releases he made before the find.

And yes, Mike S., we live in a "Perfect World", our government officials always have your best interest at heart, they would never mislead you, and always give their best effort. As evidenced by the statement, "The hunters will find them in a few years."

This is precisely why organizations like CAP and Texas Equi Search are so important to us because "others don't care enough".

My heart felt feelings and prayers go out to the family members who have been waiting for some closure on finding the pilots remains, time really does heal your pain.

Other members are right, spend your money on state of the art tech. (elts, gps) they are cheap at four times the price. If my brother had had a simple gps (not generally available at the time), it would not even have been a close call. What is the value of a Garmin 496 when it could mean your life or your family members life?

[Ralph Kramden]

Again, I would like to know: Where was CAP sent to search? If we weren't ever sent to the area of the actual crash then we could not have found the victim.

Did CAP search that grid?

On my first time out on a search exercise, they sent us to search a grid and we searched it diligently and thoroughly only to find that the target was in fact 60 miles away. I got an A for effort but that's all that I could do. As a team though, we did find the target. And I did find the next two targets I was sent to look for that day. Not bad for a first time out.

--Ralph
"In Nomex Maximus"

[Ron Lee]

These can be had for around $550 USD with integral GPS. Obviously it won't help if you are flying nap of the earth and suddenly get slammed into the ground because of strong winds or you fly into a thunderstorm and the plane is ripped apart before you can activate it.

The actual accuracy of the position reported in the transmitted message is probably closer to 10 meters. Of course you get get the 406 MHz ELT as Yukon suggested but the PLB works in all modes...even at home.