Buyer?s Etiquette

[meloosifah]

Originally Posted by rv7boy

I got burned on a car sale one time by agreeing to hold the car for a deposit. When the buyer could not arrange financing she came back with her tale of woe and a request for a refund of her deposit. After that experience, I accept no deposits. It?s ?whoever shows up first with the money.?

As a buyer, I would find this unacceptable. Most high-end items are being purchased far from where you?re located. The chances of finding that meant condition 1970 Porsche 914-6 In your own backyard, or finding the perfect RV-8 you?ve been looking for in your own backyard, are pretty slim. That means I am arranging financing perhaps, at least paying travel expenses.

I typically ask to provide a deposit, fully refundable if the item is not as described. If the inspection uncovers significant issues that were undisclosed I get my deposit back. The reality is, the seller already has something of worse. The buyer is the one that is extending all of the trust. I can?t tell you how many times I?ve tried to purchase a significant item, only to discover that it was not even remotely as described. For the most part, a seller is not out anything if a buyer does not come through. Conversely, the buyer invest money and pre-purchase inspections, travel expenses, financing expenses, etc.

I guess it?s all in perspective. In the example I gave earlier, the seller of a project on this site refused a deposit from me. He said he didn?t want to hassle with the deposit. He said he would absolutely hold the aircraft until Thursday to allow me property to get a flight out there. He then sold it on Tuesday.

To me, no matter how you dice it, that was bad business. If you tell somebody will do something, then you need to do it. It doesn?t matter what they do. At the end of the day, I stand before God accountable for my own actions. I?m in the situation originally described here, I think I would have contacted seller number one and offered them a chance. Obviously, I don?t know all the circumstances of every sale that?s been referenced in this thread. However, I have a hard time believing that all the buyers just disappear if you hold your item for an extra day or two. In my experience it takes months to find the item you?re looking for, often. More likely, all of those buyers that disappeared weren?t real buyers anyways.

Think of it as if you?re running a business. If the actions you just engaged in incline your clients to repeat business with you, great. If the action you engaged in would alienate your clients, then it?s probably the wrong thing. Imagine for a moment, calling the store across town to find out if they have an item available. They tell you yes, you asked them to hold it for you while you get there. They agree. When you arrive 15 minutes later, they tell you that they already sold. Would you continue going back to that store, trusting them with your business?

[meloosifah]

One other, slightly unrelated, thought. My dad used to always say that in Theory a good deal is when everyone walks away happy. But in practice it?s more likely to be that everyone walks away slightly disappointed, feeling that they could?ve gotten a little bit better deal. What he meant was that in most bad deals one person is happier than the other. In most good deals everyone has about the same attitude whether it is happy or thinking maybe they could have gotten a little more out of the other party.

[Bcone1381]

Originally Posted by f1rocket

So since we are talking buyers etiquette here, let me pass this example by you and tell me what you would do. This happened to me on the sale of my RV12 and I still feel bad about it.

Your thoughts?

Communication is key. The seller is always in control and the buyer rarely is. If you are a buyer and the seller has not thought about this part of the sale, then an opportunity exists to take control and tell him what you need to be a perspective buyer. "I'm on my way, I'll be there in four hours. But if you won't agree to hold to for me until I see it then I won't waist my time." I suggest sellers do the following

1) Establish the rules for any sale before you item is listed. (All buyer will respect you for doing this.)

2) Communicate clearly to every potential buyer what the rules are. (All buyer will respect you also for doing this.)

So, If someone is "on the way" should you hold it for him?
IF someone shows up with Cash, does he become King and thus snipes out all others?
If someone wants to have a pre-purchase inspection done, have you made a commitment for the sale to that person if another will buy it sight unseen?

It will provide comfort and set a healthy & trustworthy tone for the sale if an agreement is entered into by both parties after the potential buyer wants the aircraft. That contract should say "I will buy your airplane contingent upon...
-My seeing it and liking it.
-a satisfactory pre purchase mechanical inspection, and
-maybe other contingencies,
-and here is a deposit to show my sincerity. If I back out, then agree how the deposit will be returned.

So, If cash is King for the sale of your aircraft, then clearly state that to the potential out of state buyer. If a deposit enough for the seller to be faithful to the buyer until an inspection, and financing can be lined up, then state so and be faithful to yourself and the potential buyer. A simple written agreement will give a lot of peace and clarity, but maybe just communicating clearly is all that is needed.

If you are selling and want Cash to be King and clearly communicate it, then the guy was on his way, driving as fast as he can knows that he might loose the aircraft to another buyer. Fair enough, but we gave clarity and removed unmet expectations by using clear communication.

[flytoday]

Originally Posted by Bcone1381

Communication is key. The seller is always in control and the buyer rarely is. If you are a buyer and the seller has not thought about this part of the sale, then an opportunity exists to take control and tell him what you need to be a perspective buyer. "I'm on my way, I'll be there in four hours. But if you won't agree to hold to for me until I see it then I won't waist my time." I suggest sellers do the following

1) Establish the rules for any sale before you item is listed. (All buyer will respect you for doing this.)

2) Communicate clearly to every potential buyer what the rules are. (All buyer will respect you also for doing this.)

...

+1

ABSOLUTELY GREAT RECOMMENDATION!!! IN WRITING, SHARED BY EMAIL TO ANY/EVERY PROSPECTIVE BUYER!!! SELLER DEFINES THE ?RULES?, BUYER ACCEPTS OR MOVES ON...

BOTH PARTIES, BE HONEST!!!

Carl
..

[edneff]

I have used a generic sales agreement similar to the one below when selling aircraft. If this is disclosed to the buyer in advance, it eliminates a lot of questions about how to proceed. the original version of this came from the AOPA website, and I do not know if it is still available there.

1. Sale of Aircraft. Seller agrees to sell to Buyer(s) and Buyer(s) agree to purchase from Seller the following Aircraft (the "Aircraft"):
Aircraft Make XXX Aircraft Model XXX
Aircraft Year XXXX 
Aircraft Registration Number NXXXX 
Aircraft Serial Number XXXXX Engine Type XXXXX-XXXXXX Engine hours XXXXX
Seller warrants that Aircraft is as described in the advertisements, photos and documents supplied to buyer.
Seller warrants that Seller holds legal title to the Aircraft and that title will be transferred to Buyer(s) free and clear of any liens, claims, charges, or encumbrances. Upon delivery of the Aircraft and payment of the balance of the purchase price, in accordance with this Agreement, Seller shall execute a bill of sale granting good and marketable title to the Aircraft.

2. Consideration. It is agreed that the price of the Aircraft is $XXXXXXX and is due on delivery of the Aircraft. All monies paid in accordance with this Agreement will be made by cash, cashier's check, certified check, wire transfer, or equivalent.

3. Deposit. The Buyer(s) shall pay a deposit of $XXXXXXX. The deposit is non-refundable except as stipulated below, in this section. The deposit shall be credited to the purchase price of the Aircraft.

4. Pre-purchase Inspection. After the signing of this Agreement, the Buyer(s) shall have the right to perform a pre-purchase inspection of the Aircraft. Such inspection shall be at the Buyers? expense and may be performed by an individual of Buyers? choice.
Upon completion of this inspection, Buyer(s) shall have two (2) days to notify Seller that they will or will not purchase the Aircraft for any reason. If Buyer(s) elect not to purchase the Aircraft, the Buyer(s) shall notify Seller of this decision. Upon receipt of such notice, Seller is entitled to keep Buyer?s deposit and the transaction is terminated.

Buyer(s) shall present to the Seller any list of discrepancies compiled. The Seller shall have two (2) business days to review the list and to notify the Buyer(s) of Seller's decision: (a) to pay to have the discrepancies repaired at Seller's expense and to complete the sale; or (b) to decline to pay the costs of repairs and to terminate the Agreement, or (c) negotiate a new purchase price, not less than the original price minus the cost of any repairs required to correct any discrepancy noted in the inspection report.

If Seller declines to pay the cost of repairs, and Buyer(s) agree, Seller shall refund, or have refunded, the Buyers? entire deposit on termination of this agreement.

[Cannon]

I was shopping for C185’s a few years ago. I had a buddy fly me up to Placerville (2-ish hour flight) to look at one that was promising. It had every one of my must-have STCs, and appeared to be ‘the one’.

We had spent several hours looking it over (it was apart for an annual) and speaking with the broker when we went for a quick lunch. On the way out the door, I asked if I needed to be worried about him selling it while I was gone. He laughed and said he wouldn’t do that. When we came back from lunch, the seller had that guilty look a dog has when they’ve eaten a roll of toilet paper and spread it all over the house.

He’d taken a deposit for the airplane while I was at lunch.

Now, I don’t know how long he’d been talking with the other buyer, but the fact that I was told one thing, and another thing happened still pisses me off to this day, and I will never use or recommend their services as a result.

It’s especially frustrating when something happens to me that I’d NEVER do to someone else. I’d never make it as a car salesman.

[meloosifah]

Agree totally. Anyone who says one thing and does another is forever a fiend in my book and I will happily tell any and all the level of trust and respect they should afford said fiend.

[meloosifah]

Back to the original post though - if someone asks me my bottom dollar I usually say that any offer is welcome or ask them what they think the market value of the item is. This puts it back in their court. I don?t get offended though. Virtually every item for sale on planet earth is negotiable. For all a buyer knows, the seller has been trying to sell for months and has just now decided that 20% discount for cash today will make the deal.

I agree that there are better ways to communicate that but at the end of the day many buyers you thought were super serious and said all the right things were actually tire kickers and many buyers who asked what your bottom dollar is were serious and you missed them by getting ticked at their lack of verbal polish.

I confess that I have asked for a bottom dollar before but I cannot recall ever calling somebody when I was not earnestly interested in buying their item.

[rv7boy]

Originally Posted by meloosifah

As a buyer, I would find this unacceptable...

And you would not be buying from me.
Regardless of all the pontifications in this thread, the seller sets the rules.

[bobnoffs]

so if the ''what's the least you will take'' is unacceptable do sellers take offense at an offer lower than they would take?
i usually do not buy something used and pay the asking price. that's just how the game is played. if the seller accepts my lower offer though, the deal is done. what if you answer the buyers question and he says ''sold''? seems like just another version of the same game.