VansAirForceForums  
Home > VansAirForceForums

- POSTING RULES
- Donate yearly (please).
- Advertise in here!

- Today's Posts | Insert Pics

  #21  
Old 08-28-2019, 01:47 PM
isosceles isosceles is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Fremont
Posts: 59
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dugaru View Post
Not sure how that would work, but I'm all ears.
It's just an idea. An LLC purchases the airplane and sings whatever the indemnity agreement the seller wants. After that the LLC sells the airplane to your without any tricky clauses. Now only the LLC is on the hook. Good luck with that.

Technically, it's easier just keep the airplane in the LLC forever, as many owners do, but you will need to pay LLC fees each year
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 08-28-2019, 01:53 PM
Pilot135pd's Avatar
Pilot135pd Pilot135pd is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Location: Vaca Moo Airport - TA37 in East TEXAS
Posts: 1,331
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dugaru View Post
That is a genuine denial of coverage for a BS violation of the FARs, I'd say.
There was NO violation of the Regs. That?s why the FAA gave me a letter for court. That didn?t stop the insurance company from denying coverage. My point is they?ll do it and it?s up to you to figure out why they shouldn?t.
__________________
RV-8 N52VM: OnSpeed Gen2 AOA-3D, Dynon D-180, Autopilot, Titan 0-360A1A, Hartzell C/S, INS-429 IFR & GPS496, WingX & Stratux for backup & ADS-B IN. Enjoying life while building an airpark with FREE campsite for pilots www.facebook.com/VacaMooAirport/

Exempt by 3 out of the 10 ways but I still donated.

Last edited by Pilot135pd : 08-28-2019 at 03:22 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 08-28-2019, 03:15 PM
Dugaru's Avatar
Dugaru Dugaru is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Richmond VA, USA
Posts: 456
Default LLC

Quote:
Originally Posted by isosceles View Post
It's just an idea. An LLC purchases the airplane and sings whatever the indemnity agreement the seller wants. After that the LLC sells the airplane to your without any tricky clauses. Now only the LLC is on the hook. Good luck with that.
Yeah, holding a number of other issues to the side, as a practical matter I don't think many sellers would agree to that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by isosceles View Post
Technically, it's easier just keep the airplane in the LLC forever, as many owners do, but you will need to pay LLC fees each year.
True. And of course the LLC doesn't provide any protection to a pilot operating the aircraft, even if the aircraft is at all times owned by the LLC, since the pilot will always be personally on the hook for allegedly negligent conduct.
__________________
N929JA, 2007 RV-9A
Based W96: New Kent International Aerodrome
(near Richmond, VA USA)
2020 Dues Paid
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 08-28-2019, 03:18 PM
Dugaru's Avatar
Dugaru Dugaru is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Richmond VA, USA
Posts: 456
Default Very educational

Got it. Definitely "aggressive" for the insurance company to deny coverage in those circumstances. A really useful real-world data point, there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pilot135pd View Post
There was NO violation of the Regs. That?s why the FAA gave me a letter for court. That didn?t stop the insurance company from denying coverage. Muy point is they?ll do it and it?s up to you to figure out why they shouldn?t.
__________________
N929JA, 2007 RV-9A
Based W96: New Kent International Aerodrome
(near Richmond, VA USA)
2020 Dues Paid
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 08-28-2019, 04:34 PM
Ted RV8 Ted RV8 is offline
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Northern CA
Posts: 430
Default

Just my two cents.

I don’t think anyone has successfully sued and won a case. Do know of a couple stories where the builder got sued but won the case. They had to pay attorneys fees to defend themselves and that was in the 40 to 50k range.

Not sure what I will do if and when the time comes to deal with mine. Maybe lawn art!

True story of a gentleman in Northern California with an RV6 about ten or fifteen years ago. Upon the advise of his attorney he sold the engine, prop, and avionics. Then cut up the plane for scrap.

Last edited by Ted RV8 : 08-28-2019 at 05:01 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 08-28-2019, 05:21 PM
Sam Buchanan's Avatar
Sam Buchanan Sam Buchanan is offline
been here awhile
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: North Alabama
Posts: 4,301
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ted RV8 View Post

True story of a gentleman in Northern California with an RV6 about ten or fifteen years ago. Upon the advise of his attorney he sold the engine, prop, and avionics. Then cut up the plane for scrap.
See post #8 in this thread.
__________________
Sam Buchanan
RV-6
Fokker D.VII replica
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 08-28-2019, 05:35 PM
Flyer2017 Flyer2017 is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: Providence, UT
Posts: 45
Default

"I'm in the process of purchasing an RV12 from a person who purchased it from the builder. The seller has been conducting his own annual condition inspections."

So the seller is the second owner of the plane and therefor not allowed to sign off the condition inspection for the plane? If that is true, the plane has not received a legal condition inspection for as long as the seller has been signing them off. If he didn't build the plane and isn't an A&P, he can't legally do a condition inspection without the participation and sign off of an A&P. You have no idea of the condition of the plane and the seller wants you to take any liability for his work. Without on heck of a thorough inspection by a DAR who is a builder and an A&P, I'd move on. Quickly.
__________________
RV-9A, 0-320, FP Prop, paid 2020
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 08-28-2019, 07:51 PM
rv9builder rv9builder is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Irvine, CA
Posts: 873
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flyer2017 View Post
So the seller is the second owner of the plane and therefor not allowed to sign off the condition inspection for the plane? If that is true, the plane has not received a legal condition inspection for as long as the seller has been signing them off. If he didn't build the plane and isn't an A&P, he can't legally do a condition inspection without the participation and sign off of an A&P.
What you say is true if the -12 is registered E/A-B. If it?s an ELSA, the second owner can take a course and be eligible to sign off on condition inspections for that particular airplane. If he/she hasn?t taken the course, they can?t sign off on condition inspections.
__________________
Mark
RV-12iS Fuselage
RV-9A Project: Sold

VAF donation made for 2020
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 08-29-2019, 07:26 AM
rv8ch's Avatar
rv8ch rv8ch is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: LSGY
Posts: 3,198
Default Easy decision

This has been discussed several times. I think the decision is easy - if you are worried about this risk, and if you have enough money to be an attractive target, just don't sell the aircraft - 100-150k is not much money for you.

If you feel that 150k is a lot of money, you probably won't be that attractive of a target.

Obviously these are rough numbers - everyone's number will be different.
__________________
Mickey Coggins
http://rv8.ch
"Hello, world!"
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 08-29-2019, 09:28 AM
isosceles isosceles is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Fremont
Posts: 59
Default

And don't forget to put your house into an irrevocable trust!
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:16 AM.


The VAFForums come to you courtesy Delta Romeo, LLC. By viewing and participating in them you agree to build your plane using standardized methods and practices and to fly it safely and in accordance with the laws governing the country you are located in.