VansAirForceForums  
Home > VansAirForceForums

- POSTING RULES
- Donate yearly (please).
- Advertise in here!

- Today's Posts | Insert Pics

  #1  
Old 08-27-2019, 07:22 PM
GottaFly GottaFly is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Crookston, MN
Posts: 4
Default Indemnify Seller Clause

I'm in the process of purchasing an RV12 from a person who purchased it from the builder. The seller has been conducting his own annual condition inspections. He is requiring a clause in the purchase agreement that would require that I indemnify him from any claim. Is it common for buyers to agree to indemnify a seller?

Another question is if it's possible for me as the buyer to purchase insurance that would cover indemnifying the seller? I know that some insurance companies will cover the seller for up to a year after the sale under the sellers policy. I have not been able to find any coverage that I can purchase as the buyer however.

Thanks in advance for your input.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 08-27-2019, 07:56 PM
moosepileit moosepileit is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Floyds Knobs, IN
Posts: 633
Default EAA version sample link

https://www.eaa.org/eaa/aircraft-bui...your-homebuilt
__________________
RV-6, bought from builder.
O-320, slider, carb, mags, FP
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 08-27-2019, 08:43 PM
isosceles isosceles is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Fremont
Posts: 59
Default

cool, you read it, now you have to indemnify the EAA as well:

Quote:
INDEMNIFY AND HOLD EAA AND ITS AFFILIATED OR RELATED ORGANIZATIONS HARMLESS
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 08-28-2019, 12:09 AM
RV7A Flyer's Avatar
RV7A Flyer RV7A Flyer is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: US
Posts: 2,251
Default

IANAL, but I did sleep in a Holiday Inn Express recently . I'm pretty sure that one cannot waive someone *else's* rights, including the right to make a claim (suit) in the event of injury or death. So this clause

Quote:
THIS WAIVER AND RELEASE IS BINDING ON THE
HEIRS, PERSONAL REPRESENTATIVES AND ASSIGNS OF THE PURCHASER,
SUBSEQUENT OWNER, PILOTS AND PASSENGERS.
is probably not going to hold up to good lawyering by, say, the family of the purchaser or their passengers in the event of a fatality or injury to the passengers.

I certainly could be wrong, as I said, I'm not a lawyer, but this has come up from time to time here (and elsewhere). Your best bet is to talk to a lawyer...answers you get on internet forums are going to be wide, varied and probably wrong . Mine included LOL!
__________________
2019 Dues paid!
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 08-28-2019, 12:43 AM
isosceles isosceles is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Fremont
Posts: 59
Default

Sneaky lawyers... To my non-professional knowledge, once you've agreed to indemnify somebody... the insurance is not gonna cover you. quite the contrary, all insurance policies have a clause prohibiting "assumed liability"

Good news is, I've read somewhere that in order to really give away an indemnification promise it has to be written in a large font on a separate sheet of paper, yada yada... in California.

I personally absolutely hate signing any agreements containing indemnification clauses.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 08-28-2019, 05:42 AM
DanH's Avatar
DanH DanH is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: 08A
Posts: 9,500
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by GottaFly View Post
He is requiring a clause in the purchase agreement that would require that I indemnify him from any claim. Is it common for buyers to agree to indemnify a seller?
Specific to your question, yes.
__________________
Dan Horton
RV-8 SS
Barrett IO-390
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 08-28-2019, 05:55 AM
moosepileit moosepileit is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Floyds Knobs, IN
Posts: 633
Default

That is what I tried to say- yes, common use.

Does it work? Mileage varies, I have seen it as bad as it gets- all still pay lawyers a lot for defense of civil suits in case of fatalities, which will take years, also.

Gladly, seen from a distance. Other than the time and defense, seemed like a pretty fruitless suit effort. - YMMV.

My opinion- if you think the word "indemnify" is important, charge up your industrial sawzall and prepare to recycle.
__________________
RV-6, bought from builder.
O-320, slider, carb, mags, FP
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 08-28-2019, 08:17 AM
RandyAB RandyAB is offline
 
Join Date: May 2016
Location: St Albert, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 515
Default

Saddest thing I’ve ever read, and a most difficult video to watch....it would have been nice if a clause could have saved it.

https://www.reddit.com/r/aviation/co...ical_to_avoid/
__________________
______________________
Randy P.
1st time builder
RV10 - QB wings and fuse. Working on cabin top
St. Albert, Alberta, Canada
Reserved:C-GRPY

Last edited by RandyAB : 08-28-2019 at 08:20 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 08-28-2019, 08:55 AM
mturnerb mturnerb is offline
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Ponte Vedra, FL
Posts: 1,474
Default

For me, the critical question would be - has anyone ever successfully sued or otherwise received compensation from the builder of an experimental aircraft for a defect in construction, or from a prior owner based on some error in maintenance? If so, based on what standard? The builder can always go back to the aircraft passing its original airworthiness inspection and builder/owner can show evidence of maintenance/annual inspections/etc. Who holds builders/owners to a maintenance standard and what is the standard? Who would testify as an expert against the builder/owner?

If I were buying an experimental aircraft I would base that decision on a careful pre-buy inspection and not have any intention of seeking remedy from the seller for a defect that I failed to discover. It wouldn't bother me to sign a hold harmless/indemnification agreement if I were satisfied with the aircraft based on careful evaluation which is my responsibility.

My experience in the world of torts (medical malpractice as a risk manager for my medical group and as an expert witness) suggests to me that lawyers are not likely to go after a builder/prior owner unless that person has very deep pockets indeed - the deep pockets are usually the target (think manufacturers of engines and other key components).

It would be interesting to hear experience of anyone who's actually aware of lawsuits involving experimentals...
__________________
Turner Billingsley

RV-14A built/sold N14VB
RV-10 in progress as of May 2020

https://tbrv10.blogspot.com/
https://turnerb14a.blogspot.com/

Last edited by mturnerb : 08-28-2019 at 09:01 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 08-28-2019, 09:43 AM
lr172 lr172 is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Schaumburg, IL
Posts: 5,297
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by isosceles View Post
Sneaky lawyers... To my non-professional knowledge, once you've agreed to indemnify somebody... the insurance is not gonna cover you. quite the contrary, all insurance policies have a clause prohibiting "assumed liability"

Good news is, I've read somewhere that in order to really give away an indemnification promise it has to be written in a large font on a separate sheet of paper, yada yada... in California.

I personally absolutely hate signing any agreements containing indemnification clauses.
Must be some loop holes, as no one can get a new plane registered without a bill o sale and you can’t get one from Vans without indemnifying them. I can’t imagine buying anything used where i expect to hold the seller responsible, beyond misrepresentation, which is different than indemnity . Buying something “as is” kind of implies that your are accepting in its current state and the risks that go with it. If not comfortable with that, buy new. Inthis case, the op is buying from a traditional seller, not a builder.
__________________
N64LR - RV-6A / IO-320, Flying as of 8/2015
N11LR - RV-10, Flying as of 12/2019

Last edited by lr172 : 08-28-2019 at 09:54 AM.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:17 AM.


The VAFForums come to you courtesy Delta Romeo, LLC. By viewing and participating in them you agree to build your plane using standardized methods and practices and to fly it safely and in accordance with the laws governing the country you are located in.