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08-05-2019, 08:46 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 2,291
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RV7ator
A sportsman or Glaster may replace it, but Van's, please oh please, 160kts. And, BTW you airplane designers, locate any strut aft of the door opening, and make the bloody right stick easily removable. Time to put your aging customers' ergonomics on the front burner.
John Siebold
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WELL SAID, John!
With the strut attach point aft of the door opening, getting into our Sportsman is pretty easily accomplished. I've had passengers from 8 to 92 years of age, including my 85 year old father.
After working for years in helicopters, making a control stick easily removable is actually a pretty simple task. It just takes some pre-planning.
In the bicycle world S&S Couplers have become the gold standard for bicycles that disassemble for airline travel. They aren't cheap but would make for a super-cool and extremely rigid quick-disconnect for a control stick.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=glEOQNxVnPU
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08-06-2019, 04:08 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Galena, Ohio
Posts: 28
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<< And also that the RV10 is their best-selling kit ever and it is 4 place. >>
Going back to this thought, from a business development standpoint, perhaps evolving the RV10 into a more refined, but more importantly, easier to build model would do well for Vans.
One comment I often hear that certainly resonates with me is the perceived "quite long" RV10 build time, especially for part-time builders. It would seem that incorporating the considerable operational lessons learned to-date for the 10 along with building on the kit efficiency gains made for the RV14 could make for a *really* desirable new 4-seat model.
__________________
2020 dues paid
RV-6A
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08-07-2019, 03:11 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Dogwood Airpark (VA42)
Posts: 2,596
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuhtenia
<< And also that the RV10 is their best-selling kit ever and it is 4 place. >>
Going back to this thought, from a business development standpoint, perhaps evolving the RV10 into a more refined, but more importantly, easier to build model would do well for Vans.
One comment I often hear that certainly resonates with me is the perceived "quite long" RV10 build time, especially for part-time builders. It would seem that incorporating the considerable operational lessons learned to-date for the 10 along with building on the kit efficiency gains made for the RV14 could make for a *really* desirable new 4-seat model.
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I hear this about the RV-10 as well. Some thoughts:
- The RV-14(A) has a lot of stuff like match drilled holes that can be incorporated into other RV kits.
- The RV-10 build time has a lot to do with the fiberglass cabin top, doors and glass. Nothing hard here but very labor intensive. If Van?s did this work I suspect the kit cost would push the plane out of reach for a lot of builders.
- Right now total cost for a RV-10 over an RV-14(A) is about $25K (assuming slow builds, new engines and such for both). For $25K I view the RV-10 the hands down value option. If Van?s started to add a lot of factory labor to the kits (putting it more on the RV-14(A) price strategy) I?d guess the RV-10 attraction would diminish.
I view the main distractor on the RV-10 as engine cost. Unfortunately any option for a new line of engines (like the Continental diesel) is just not realistic, at least in my lifetime.
Carl
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08-07-2019, 04:04 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: NC
Posts: 136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Froehlich
I view the main distractor on the RV-10 as engine cost. Unfortunately any option for a new line of engines (like the Continental diesel) is just not realistic, at least in my lifetime.
Carl
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Im coming back to my earlier comment as this point here is key for me. I know there are plenty of 4-place, 4-cyl options in the used certified world but none come close to the performance or pilot satisfaction that you get with a vans. For me just having a stick in my hand vs a yoke is a real selling point.
I would love to see Vans maximize the experience that can be had from the usual bunch of 4-cyl engines in a 4-place machine. Maybe even make it strong enough for gentleman acro when flown solo or 2-up.
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08-07-2019, 04:37 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Dogwood Airpark (VA42)
Posts: 2,596
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kooshball
Im coming back to my earlier comment as this point here is key for me. I know there are plenty of 4-place, 4-cyl options in the used certified world but none come close to the performance or pilot satisfaction that you get with a vans. For me just having a stick in my hand vs a yoke is a real selling point.
I would love to see Vans maximize the experience that can be had from the usual bunch of 4-cyl engines in a 4-place machine. Maybe even make it strong enough for gentleman acro when flown solo or 2-up.
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I?ll have to disagree. The IO-540 is a good match for the RV-10. Anything less and you end up with an underpowered four seat plane that can really only carry two real people, either the RV-10 or a scaled down four place RV-XX.
I like the IO-540 but the engineer in me screams for a modern, diesel engine. Why not four seats, 170kts TAS on 8gph of Jet A? Here a two stroke diesel makes the most sense as they are very efficient in such constant power service. The Delta Hawk is (I think) finally ready for prime time but it is grossly overpriced and underpowered for the RV-10.
If EAA and AOPA would embrace 94UL fuel instead of just stubbornly waiting another 20 years for the drop in 100UL fuel I would find the IO-540 far more appealing.
Carl
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08-08-2019, 11:06 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: San Diego
Posts: 99
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Rans has sold so many S-21s their orders today are going to ship in 12-15 months.. I still think Vans is REALLY missing the boat on the high-wing STOL-ish market. I would order a kit TODAY if Van's announced a 2-place side-by-side high-wing Bush(ish) plane.
__________________
RV-8 N188LC
Dues Paid 11/19
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08-08-2019, 11:08 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: San Diego
Posts: 99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Froehlich
I like the IO-540 but the engineer in me screams for a modern, diesel engine. Why not four seats, 170kts TAS on 8gph of Jet A? Here a two stroke diesel makes the most sense as they are very efficient in such constant power service. The Delta Hawk is (I think) finally ready for prime time but it is grossly overpriced and underpowered for the RV-10.
Carl
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Out at our work site in Arizona, the local flight school has a diesel 172 they use for training.. It's DEAD QUIET compared to the other 172's in their fleet. Seriously in agreement here with you.. A good direct-injection modern diesel aircraft engine would be a fantastic option..
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RV-8 N188LC
Dues Paid 11/19
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08-09-2019, 08:57 AM
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Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Alexandria, MN
Posts: 304
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IF the FAA does follow through and expand LSA to include higher gross weight and 4 seats; I've got my money on Van's making a plane to fit the max of those specifications, whatever they may be.
__________________
Chris Odens
Alexandria, MN
RV-7 N914N
FLYING!!! as of 7/22/10
Build Log
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08-16-2019, 02:07 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Novi, MI
Posts: 107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DougCronkhite
Rans has sold so many S-21s their orders today are going to ship in 12-15 months.. I still think Vans is REALLY missing the boat on the high-wing STOL-ish market. I would order a kit TODAY if Van's announced a 2-place side-by-side high-wing Bush(ish) plane.
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Sling announced the TSi High Wing at AirVenture. They expect it to be only a few kts slower than the low wing. This means that it will still be a +150kts airplane. Seems like they are already working on the prototype and that they will have it at next year's AirVenture
I bet that it will become a huge success: Many people prefer high-wing aircraft, it has 4 seats, is reasonably fast, doesn't need much runway, and is easy and fast to build.
I'm still puzzled that we don't see something like this from Van's...
__________________
* Flying Mooney M20E
* RV-10 kit on hold
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08-16-2019, 03:13 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Sunman, IN
Posts: 2,189
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and...
The devil is always in the details.
Like the often overlooked cabin width of 44". So basically the Sling "4" seater is about the sized of a C-172 inside...
So is it a "4 Seater"? Well, technically it does have 4 seats; putting 4 FAA people in those seats, well, that's another story...
__________________
Bob
Aerospace Engineer '88
RV-10
Structure - 90% Done
Cabin Top - Aaarrghhh...
EFII System 32 - Done
297 HP Barrett Hung
ShowPlanes Cowl with Skybolts Fitted - Beautiful
Wiring...
Dues+ Paid 2019,...Thanks DR+
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