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08-08-2019, 02:13 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Worland, Wyoming
Posts: 1,365
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Can someone lay it out for me? IFR Dynon
Hello, I have been reading for hours and right when I think I have IFR pannel planning figured out I get confused again.
Here is the situation: I started working on my IFR ticket back in the day and would like to finish it with my -7A when it's flying. I'm not looking to fly single engine into hard IFR minimums but I do think IFR makes a much better pilot and I would like to be able to get through simple high level overcasts. Plus, I remember during training that IFR flying was just that much cooler!
The bird is initially going VFR so I can get her into the air sooner and do all the phase one stuff and enjoy the plane which will all be VFR anyways. Howevever, I'm planning my panel and electrical right now and I want to design it so that all I have to do is drop in the components like Garmin GPS and another ADAHRS to be IFR capable.
Here is my setup so far:
-Dual Dynon HDX
-one ADAHRS
-Skyview GPS
-Skyview ADS-B
-2 axis Dynon autopilot with panel
-1 Dynon com
-2 place intercom
Here are my questions:
1. Is there a single GPS I can plan for that will give me all the capabilities I need? I'm assuming a GTN 650 or higher?
2. I'm assuming there is no way to make it through instrument training without ILS cababilities although I gather from a lot of people that they generaly fly different types of approaches once finished with their ticket, correct?
3. Am I correct in assuming I cannot simply ad one of Garmin's new GNC 355 or GPS 175 units because they do not support ILS approaches without adding something else like a GNC 255 nav/comm radio?
4. Assuming I get a GPS with nav/comm or some other device will the Dynon HDX be my LOC and glide-slope display during an ILS approach?
In a nutshell, I'm trying to figure out what I need to plan for so that I can fly IFR and get through an instrument check ride and training.
Thanks to whoever can lay it out for me!
__________________
Jereme Carne
PPL
RV-7A Emp. done
Wings done
Fuselage done
Finish kit almost done
Exempt but gladly paying!
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08-08-2019, 02:29 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Garden City, Tx
Posts: 5,146
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My panel is set up currently just like yours is - with the addition of a Garmin 430W. You'll need a Dynon ARINC-429 module to take the guidance from any certified box (430W, 650 etc) and display that guidance on the Dynon HSI - from there you can hand-fly it or engage the autopilot to follow it. Any certified box that develops and supplies IFR guidance can be fed to the Dynon HSI via the ARINC - whether it's GPS, VOR, or ILS. The 430W can do all that, I don't know about the 650.
Once you have the certified box feeding the guidance to the Dynon, then yes your Dynon HSI is your primary display for guidance data. You'll still have to monitor your certified box for annunciations as required, but your actual flight guidance will be displayed on the HDX screen.
I took my IFR training in my 9A with my current panel setup, all Dynon plus a 430W and a Garmin G5 for attitude backup.
__________________
Greg Niehues - SEL, IFR, Repairman Cert.
Garden City, TX VAF 2020 dues paid 
N16GN flying 700 hrs and counting; IO360, SDS, WWRV200, Dynon HDX, 430W
Built an off-plan RV9A with too much fuel and too much HP. Should drop dead any minute now.
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08-08-2019, 02:43 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Livermore, CA
Posts: 6,797
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As the ACS (nee PTS) is currently written, a TSO 145/146 GPS is not sufficient for the check ride. However, some examiners have been willing to bend the rules, or maybe simulate an emergency VOR approach using a $400 handheld, etc. The gps (only) is sufficient for most IFR operations (as long as it doesn't fail!).
I would strongly recommend a second attitude source, with its own battery. At a bare minimum, a second AHRS box.
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08-08-2019, 03:14 PM
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Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Beaverton
Posts: 50
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You?ve basically got it
See responses to your questions below.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jcarne
1. Is there a single GPS I can plan for that will give me all the capabilities I need? I'm assuming a GTN 650 or higher? You don?t need that much radio. A non-WAAS GNS430 would be good enough. You just need to be able to do 2 different non-precision approaches and 1 precision approach. ILS would count for the precision and VOR and GPS would count for the non-precision. A more capable GPS would allow you to use an LPV as your precision approach, but you?d still need more than just a GPS to do 2 different non-precision approaches.
2. I'm assuming there is no way to make it through instrument training without ILS cababilities although I gather from a lot of people that they generaly fly different types of approaches once finished with their ticket, correct? You don?t need the ILS capability, but any NAV (stand-alone or in a GPS/NAV/COM) will have that capability.
3. Am I correct in assuming I cannot simply ad one of Garmin's new GNC 355 or GPS 175 units because they do not support ILS approaches without adding something else like a GNC 255 nav/comm radio? That is correct.
4. Assuming I get a GPS with nav/comm or some other device will the Dynon HDX be my LOC and glide-slope display during an ILS approach? I have a HDX and it displays vertical and horizontal guidance from my SL30 NAV and horizontal guidance from my GX50.
In a nutshell, I'm trying to figure out what I need to plan for so that I can fly IFR and get through an instrument check ride and training. . I would think the hardest bit might be to find an examiner willing to do the check ride in an experimental. I don?t believe they are required to even if it is appropriately equipped.
Thanks to whoever can lay it out for me!
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__________________
Jason Rood
Beaverton Oregon | RV-8A, Very slow QB
No Pithy quote here; just the sincere hope that your day ends better then it began
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08-08-2019, 03:32 PM
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unqualified unfluencer
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Highland Village, TX
Posts: 4,088
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Quote:
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I would think the hardest bit might be to find an examiner willing to do the check ride in an experimental.
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Surprisingly, I found it really quite easy to find DPEs around me that would do the IFR checkride in an RV. I did mine in the family RV-6.
Maybe it various around the country. Real possibility.
v/r,dr
__________________
Doug Reeves (your host) - Full time: VansAirForce.net since '07 (started it in '96).
- Part time: Supporting Crew Member CAE Embraer Phenom 300 (E55P) @ KDFW.
- Occasionally: Contract pilot (resume).
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08-08-2019, 04:17 PM
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Cedar Park, TX
Posts: 3,156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaRomeo
Surprisingly, I found it really quite easy to find DPEs around me that would do the IFR checkride in an RV. I did mine in the family RV-6.
Maybe it various around the country. Real possibility.
v/r,dr
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Yep. Tanya and I both did our IFR checkrides in the RV, what seems like a long time ago.
__________________
Scott Card
CQ Headset by Card Machine Works
CMW E-Lift
RV-9A N4822C flying 2200+hrs. / Cedar Park, TX
RV8 Building - fuselage / showplanes canopy (Done!)
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08-08-2019, 04:51 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: Worland, Wyoming
Posts: 1,365
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WOW, great responses here guys. I even got a few PMs so that I can call. Thanks a bunch!
Quote:
Originally Posted by airguy
My panel is set up currently just like yours is - with the addition of a Garmin 430W. You'll need a Dynon ARINC-429 module to take the guidance from any certified box (430W, 650 etc) and display that guidance on the Dynon HSI - from there you can hand-fly it or engage the autopilot to follow it. Any certified box that develops and supplies IFR guidance can be fed to the Dynon HSI via the ARINC - whether it's GPS, VOR, or ILS. The 430W can do all that, I don't know about the 650.
Once you have the certified box feeding the guidance to the Dynon, then yes your Dynon HSI is your primary display for guidance data. You'll still have to monitor your certified box for annunciations as required, but your actual flight guidance will be displayed on the HDX screen.
I took my IFR training in my 9A with my current panel setup, all Dynon plus a 430W and a Garmin G5 for attitude backup.
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Thanks for the input and the PM. I'll give you a call soon to discuss this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobTurner
As the ACS (nee PTS) is currently written, a TSO 145/146 GPS is not sufficient for the check ride. However, some examiners have been willing to bend the rules, or maybe simulate an emergency VOR approach using a $400 handheld, etc. The gps (only) is sufficient for most IFR operations (as long as it doesn't fail!).
I would strongly recommend a second attitude source, with its own battery. At a bare minimum, a second AHRS box.
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Good points here Bob. I currently have a backup airspeed indicator which I will replace with either a Garmin G5 or Dynon D10 for backup.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reformed SeaSnake
See responses to your questions below.
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Thanks Jason, that answered a lot of my questions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeltaRomeo
Surprisingly, I found it really quite easy to find DPEs around me that would do the IFR checkride in an RV. I did mine in the family RV-6.
Maybe it various around the country. Real possibility.
v/r,dr
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Good point DR. Luckily I have a high school student that just graduated and is going to flight training on a full ride. He will be my go to guy.  I just hope I have shown him my project enough times for him to eventually buy a kit himself.
Quote:
Originally Posted by scard
Yep. Tanya and I both did our IFR checkrides in the RV, what seems like a long time ago.
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Thanks for the data point Scott.
__________________
Jereme Carne
PPL
RV-7A Emp. done
Wings done
Fuselage done
Finish kit almost done
Exempt but gladly paying!
Last edited by jcarne : 08-08-2019 at 07:02 PM.
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08-08-2019, 05:56 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Mesa Arizona
Posts: 608
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LPV approaches are not technically ?precision approaches?.
Neither are RNP Lnav/Vnav approaches gaining popularity in the airline word.
The lowest m?nima still come from ILS precision approaches.
From google.
LPV approaches are a WAAS/GPS based approach, and they're very similar to the ILS. But there is a difference. Even though LPV approaches have vertical guidance, they're not considered precision approaches. Instead, they're an approach with vertical guidance (APV).
So what's the difference? APV approaches don't meet the ICAO and FAA precision approach definitions, which apply mostly to localizer and glideslope transmitters. The precision approach definition also carries a lot of documentation, definition, and cost with it, so the FAA and ICAO adopted the APV definition, so they could build new approaches and not be burdened with the cost and paperwork
__________________
Myron Nelson
Mesa, AZ
RV-10 N24EV
KITPLANES Contributing Editor
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08-08-2019, 08:20 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Garden City, Tx
Posts: 5,146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woxofswa
So what's the difference? APV approaches don't meet the ICAO and FAA precision approach definitions, which apply mostly to localizer and glideslope transmitters. The precision approach definition also carries a lot of documentation, definition, and cost with it, so the FAA and ICAO adopted the APV definition, so they could build new approaches and not be burdened with the cost and paperwork
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Gee - sounds a lot like EAB!
__________________
Greg Niehues - SEL, IFR, Repairman Cert.
Garden City, TX VAF 2020 dues paid 
N16GN flying 700 hrs and counting; IO360, SDS, WWRV200, Dynon HDX, 430W
Built an off-plan RV9A with too much fuel and too much HP. Should drop dead any minute now.
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08-08-2019, 11:31 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Livermore, CA
Posts: 6,797
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woxofswa
The lowest m?nima still come from ILS precision approaches.
k
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There are now a lot of LPV approaches with minimums of 200? and 1/2 mile visibility, the same as standard cat 1 ILS minima. Very few pilots jump thru the hoops to get cat II qualified, so in a practical sense, ILS and LPV approaches are essentially equal.
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