Group buy for quarter turn fastners

[Thatchman]

Originally Posted by Bob Collins

I'm still trying to figure out which way to go on this. Are folks happy with how these work. Are there horror stories -- or not -- with the Van's attachment method. Do I want the firewall "only" (whatever exactly that is), just the side, or the whole deal?

What are the pros and cons of all the options?

Bob, Paul, Others,

You may want to search the forums for terms like cowl, hinge, camloc milspec, groups buy. There is a lot of good info here from previous groups we have put together that may answer some questions. In any event if there is sometheing not addressed that you want to know, just contact me or post here and I'll do my best. BTW Scott Haskins (tx_jayhawk) has a good bit of info on this as well. He set up the original group buy with us. Thanks Scott!

B,
Jeremy
AKA Thatchman

[LettersFromFlyoverCountry]

I actually did do some searching for the previous group buy but most of the threads were about the same... and it was kinda like coming in in the middle of a conversation.

Somewhere there should be an article on why I would want to spend, say, $400 on these. What is the advantage that buys me over the Van's system?

I haven't found it yet and usually if there's stuff I just GOTTA have, it's usually not hard finding the thread or message or article that tells me why I gotta have it.

I have no doubt these are high quality goods, but I'm looking for someone selling me these things to sell me ON these things first.

[lrfrey]

Bob, I did a lot of searching on the subject, and as usual it's in the eye of the beholder. In the final analysis, here is what I decided to do and why...

Two cowl halves are joined with hinges and pins per Van's. Did it, works well and looks good.

Sides of the lower cowl are attached to the firewall with hinges and pins, works well, looks good and is quick and easy to use.

Bottom of cowl is attached to the firewall with screws and nutplates. Pins down there seemed hard to get at and as I don't think the bottom cowl will be removed too frequently, screws work for me.

Top cowl at firewall, I didn't like the hinge and pins because I tried them on a friends plane and they were hard to reinsert. That may be just because of the way he fitted his I don't know, but I didn't like it. So I m electing to attach the top cowl at the firewall with Loc's. I believe in looking into the engine compartment every day that I fly and I want that to be easy... birds are very clever!

I figure I will need about a dozen Loc's, there isn't a kit offered for this so I guess I will just buy what I need an forge on.

Larry

[Thatchman]

Originally Posted by Bob Collins

I actually did do some searching for the previous group buy but most of the threads were about the same... and it was kinda like coming in in the middle of a conversation.

Somewhere there should be an article on why I would want to spend, say, $400 on these. What is the advantage that buys me over the Van's system?

I haven't found it yet and usually if there's stuff I just GOTTA have, it's usually not hard finding the thread or message or article that tells me why I gotta have it.

I have no doubt these are high quality goods, but I'm looking for someone selling me these things to sell me ON these things first.

Bob,

Basically this comes down to a personal preference issue. As with anything when your building an aircraft there are tradeoffs to be made and each builder has to make those decisions for themselves. In this case it is utility and ease of use versus less expense and what was originally proposed by Vans. I?m not trying to necessarily ?sell? you something but rather offer a product that I personally believe to be better than the hinge design. Why is it better? Well, IMHO, quarter turns are easier to work with on a day to day basis, a couple of quick pops and you can get to anything under the cowl for inspection, maintenance or just to show off all your hard work to the local audience. Plus, you can get the cowls on and off by yourself with minimal effort. The hinges can be difficult to work with when one person is trying to get the cowl on, especially the firewall portion. Also, in some instances they have a tendency to develop stress cracks over time at the eyelets or rivet locations. Which then requires drilling out rivets and replacing the broken parts. Those of you with hinges please don?t be offended I am not saying this will happen, it?s just that it has happened in the field more than a few times. The RVs are a little different but most, if not all production aircraft use some sort of quarter turn or latching mechanism on the cowls for convenience of the owner and mechanic. I haven?t seen one with the hinge arrangement in my experience. The hinge is less expensive and some would say looks better. On the other hand some would say they like the tough, industrial type look of the quarter turns. Again this is a personal preference. One thing is for sure the quarter turns will allow you to get the cowls on and off quicker and easier. Regardless, I am sure you will have a great looking, performance aircraft whatever your choice is for the cowl fastening system.

If you need anything else, please let me know.

Best,
Jeremy
MS

[Sparky]

Could someone please clarify how to be included in this group buy? I sent a PM to "Thatchman" per the instructions in the "VAF Group Buys / Discounts " forum on 6/22, but received no response. I'm confused and I'm concerned others may be also. The visibility of this group buy and how to be included seems to have diminished since it was relegated to the "group buys" forum.

[Thatchman]

I'm sorry about that Paul, my IT guy changed our e-mail addresses a couple of weeks ago and I forgot to change it here. My bad. At any rate I will set you up for the group as per your request. I have also noticed a drop off in the number of participants. I will see about posting another update in the group buy forum with the hope of increasing the visibility. Once I have a final count on the number of participants I will get in touch with everyone for shipping, billing info and let you know how deep the discount is. If you have any questions or need additonal information, please let me know. Again, sorry about the inconvenience.

Best,
Jeremy Summers
MilSpec
T 352-735-0065
milspecprod@earthlink.net

[pierre smith]

Originally Posted by Bob Collins

I actually did do some searching for the previous group buy but most of the threads were about the same... and it was kinda like coming in in the middle of a conversation.

Somewhere there should be an article on why I would want to spend, say, $400 on these. What is the advantage that buys me over the Van's system?

I haven't found it yet and usually if there's stuff I just GOTTA have, it's usually not hard finding the thread or message or article that tells me why I gotta have it.

I have no doubt these are high quality goods, but I'm looking for someone selling me these things to sell me ON these things first.

Bob,
The hinges are difficult to route around the outer radius of the cowl and their ends stick up out of the cowl, unless you get real creative and find a way to hide them inside the cowl. We used 12 stainless camloks (the cheaper ones, not like Skybolt) on the upper cowl and three on the underside (each side) of the lower cowl..255 trouble free hours so far...oh yeah, with the pins sticking up, they'll snag your wash-rag too Used hinges on the sides and on the firewall for the lower cowl.

[IMG][/IMG]

Regards,
Pierre

[Bill Palmer]

Jeremy,

How many individual fasteners (one stud + one receptacle + grommets) are included in the following kits?

RV8-C1P (Complete set - Phillips) $446.00 Retail

RV8-C1P-FW (Firewall Only Kit - Phillips) $266.00 Retail

RV8-C1P-Side (Side Only Kit - Phillips) $213.20 Retail

I am planning to go with a combination of hinges and MILSPEC camlocs. I suspect that I should be buying the Side Only Kit, but I'm not sure how many fasteners are included with this kit. I need a minimum of 12 fasteners, but a few spare fasteners might be a good idea.

Thank You,

Bill Palmer

[Thatchman]

Bill,

RV8-C1P = 48 set ups
RV8-C1P-FW = 28 set ups
RV8-C1P-SD = 20 set ups

All kits include drill templates, and rivets for the receptacles. Complete kits also include some screws and nutplates for the nose bowl area.

Best,
Jer

[Jim Martin]

I sent DR a email requesting a RV67910-C1P-FW so count me in.How much trouble am I in on a retrofit as I will testify the hinge pin is a pain.Fly a 9A since Nov.