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07-10-2019, 11:25 PM
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Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Boston, MA
Posts: 23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironflight
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Awesome, that’s exactly what I needed. Thank you!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike S
Note that the 51% is based on Tasks, and not on total labor or hours.
Kinda strange when you first look at it, but many folks get caught up in thinking the 51% is of the total labor.
Paul is right on, take it to the bank.
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Got it, thanks. I’ll be reviewing the FAA document linked above so I can make sure I really understand what will get me to the 51%.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobTurner
I noticed no one answered your ‘first run’ question. This term refers to a used engine that has never been overhauled, e.g., most likely has about 2000 hr or less total time on it, and is therefore a likely candidate for an overhaul with no surprises, e.g., crankshaft re-useable, crankcase re-useable, etc.
Lycon has a reputation of doing excellent work - and their backlog and prices reflect that.
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Oh wow, that’s opening a whole new can of worms for me. I always assumed that had to be done by a shop. Any idea how much money it can save? I’d much rather be rebuilding an engine than riveting together a fuselage... Is this something one can learn informally, or do I need to attend a class to lean the skills?
Quote:
Originally Posted by pjc
You sound a lot like my younger self (by 35-40 years). If I had $80k to work with, here’s what I wish I had done (in today’s world).
1). Buy a flying RV8 or a 4 if you like the styling better (or even a Rocket if you can find one in your budget)
2). Fly a lot — learn a lot
3). Get on with the rest of your life — marry that girl, have those kids
4). In 15-20 years you’ll have (if all goes well):
A great family life
A lot of experience flying and maintaining and modifying and rebuilding a safe, high performance sport plane. Your wrenching skills will come in handy!
5). If you’ve saved aggressively, retire early and build a (30 year newer) dream machine.
Sorry to sound preachy. Building, especially a non-prepunched kit, is a big commitment (for you and the others in your life). Unless you (and they) like building as much (or more) than flying ... buy first. When your family and career are in a position to support your build — go build that (future) dream machine.
This is advice to *my* younger self. Please ignore if it doesn’t apply to you.
Peter
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Hey Peter,
Thanks a lot for the personal note. I always appreciate lessons and advice being passed down from people with life experience. I think I’m in a somewhat unique situation because I had a lucrative first job in finance straight out of college. I’ve always lived very frugally and as a result I have the luxury of already owning my “good ‘nuff” little home and “good ‘nuff” used car with no debt hanging over me. My girlfriend is about to start optometry school, which will keep her really busy for the next four years, and we don’t plan to get married until she’s done with her program.
I enlisted in the Guard because I was very moved by a story of personal sacrifice, and I decided that I want to live deliberately and meaningfully. If I learned anything from my time in the military it’s that life is short, and that opportunities to live it will pass you right by without warning.
I guess I also learned that I like wrenching on aircraft at least as much as I like flying them, if not more. I’d rather be on the ground turning a wrench on a Rocket than in the air putting around in a 152.I started my grad degree in engineering because I realized that aviation is my passion, and that I want to make a career of it one way or another. I know that I could happily spend all my “hobby time” building an aircraft. I’m an old soul in a millennial body, and trolling around on social media and binge watching Netflix don’t do it for me the way that getting my hands greasy does.
I think I’m in a very odd and fortunate position, where I just might be able to manage a build if I plan my use of time and money effectively.
Having said all that, I can definitely see how buying an RV4 or similar performance experimental could be a better path... Can I legally tinker and do modifications/repairs on an experimental that I did not assemble myself? For example, could I overhaul an engine myself, as someone above was suggesting?
Thanks,
Steve
Last edited by s11033 : 07-10-2019 at 11:29 PM.
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07-11-2019, 02:15 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Livermore, CA
Posts: 6,797
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You, or anyone, may work on an experimental aircraft as much as you like.
(1) if the work is ?major?, the FAA will require you to test fly for some hours, no passengers, non-urban area, before letting you carry passengers.
(2) You must have an annual ?condition? inspection done. This may be done by anyone with an A&P license, or, one of the original builders who was given a ?limited repairman certificate? by the FISDO.
Doing your own inspections is a nice benefit of building your own airplane.
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07-11-2019, 02:50 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Basel, Switzerland
Posts: 203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s11033
Hey Peter,
Thanks a lot for the personal note. I always appreciate lessons and advice being passed down from people with life experience. I think I?m in a somewhat unique situation because I had a lucrative first job in finance straight out of college. I?ve always lived very frugally and as a result I have the luxury of already owning my ?good ?nuff? little home and ?good ?nuff? used car with no debt hanging over me. My girlfriend is about to start optometry school, which will keep her really busy for the next four years, and we don?t plan to get married until she?s done with her program.
I enlisted in the Guard because I was very moved by a story of personal sacrifice, and I decided that I want to live deliberately and meaningfully. If I learned anything from my time in the military it?s that life is short, and that opportunities to live it will pass you right by without warning.
I guess I also learned that I like wrenching on aircraft at least as much as I like flying them, if not more. I?d rather be on the ground turning a wrench on a Rocket than in the air putting around in a 152.I started my grad degree in engineering because I realized that aviation is my passion, and that I want to make a career of it one way or another. I know that I could happily spend all my ?hobby time? building an aircraft. I?m an old soul in a millennial body, and trolling around on social media and binge watching Netflix don?t do it for me the way that getting my hands greasy does.
I think I?m in a very odd and fortunate position, where I just might be able to manage a build if I plan my use of time and money effectively.
Having said all that, I can definitely see how buying an RV4 or similar performance experimental could be a better path... Can I legally tinker and do modifications/repairs on an experimental that I did not assemble myself? For example, could I overhaul an engine myself, as someone above was suggesting?
Thanks,
Steve
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Hi Steve,
I was in more or less the same situation 5 years ago. Finished my studies, no Family/Girlfriend and a very good first Job.
I just pulled the trigger for a RV-8 (QB) and started. Now I am 90% done and I have a Girlfriend I want to marry. I was one year into the build when I met her and she always supported me to build as much as I could. The plan was to finish before marriage and Children but I am not sure if it is going to work out. But would I do it again? Yes absolutely 100%! I love building as much as I love flying (Maybe that changes when I switch from the Champ I fly now to the RV). But it I have a great time building my Dream machine.. And I am 100% sure it won`t be my last plane I build (but first I will marry and have babies)? So if you want to do it - go for it
I am 32 and soon be flying my dream plane...
__________________
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Yves - Basel, Switzerland
RV-8 #83458 HB-YUA
Donation 2019 done
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07-11-2019, 07:42 AM
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Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Camas, WA
Posts: 370
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Hey Steve-
Welcome to this great site! I just want to throw my experience out as yet another data point. Sounds like you've got your life pretty well figured out at a young age which is awesome!
I purchased my RV7 tail kit 15+ years ago. I knocked that thing about pretty quickly and ordered the QB shortly thereafter. Then... life got in the way. Career, multiple houses, girlfriends, other hobbies etc. My plane moved with me a couple times and took up a bay in my garage getting dusty. I did have a 172 for a while but sold that too.
Last year I was at the point of sell off my project or finish and can happily share that I chose the latter and am getting much closer and should be flying this year (best decision!). I'll end up with an awesome plane, likely much better than I would have had if I had kept building back then.
I guess if I were to do it all over again- I'd tell my younger self to buy a flying one and then build later in life (where I am now). Finances are much better, time is probably the same or slightly worse but priorities are now more focused. I am now mid 40's now so still lots of good RV flying time and probably another RV build in my future too (RV10)
Again, just my experience- either journey you take will be great.
Good luck!
__________________
Dan Reed
Camas, WA
RV-7A - Slider in progress - N167DR (reserved)
Sitting in the paint booth, then final assembly/inspection time
2018 and 2019 VAF dues paid
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07-11-2019, 08:23 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Mount Vernon, IN
Posts: 1,270
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TS Flightlines
Steve----I had the pleasure of taking a trip in a F4 that Ray Ward built... Tom
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Tom,
You flew with Ray and it was a PLEASURE??? Surely, not the same Ray Ward that I know?!    
Ray is a hoot and has been extraordinarily helpful to us, and to everyone involved. He plans to have his new F4 in our display at Osh this year... just over a week away.
We're in the north display area, about 100' away from Van's, between the warbirds and the brown arch.
__________________
Vince Frazier
www.f1aircraft.com
F1 Rocket and F4 Raider components
1-888-F1AIRCRAFT (1-888-312-4727)
www.flyboyaccessories.com
RV and Rocket Accessories, Tailwheels, Tools, & More
1-888-8FLYBOY (1-888-835-9269)
F4 Raider - under construction
F1-H Rocket "Crazy Horse" - sold
RV-4 "Chief Pontiac" - sold in 1994, purchased in 2018
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07-11-2019, 08:33 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Mount Vernon, IN
Posts: 1,270
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymo
The Raider and Rocket kits are not pre-punched, as are the other newer Vans designs. Ray built his very quickly but he is retired, is an old A&P with tons of experience (also built a RV-7 and rebuilt his Luscomb). I don't know what he has in his F-4 Raider but he did mention over 15k just in the prop and another 2k in the spinner.
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Raymo,
You misunderstood Ray, or there was other confusion. I have the exact price that Ray paid for his NEW Hartzell and spinner and can assure you that $17K mentioned above is WAY, WAY higher than he paid. $10K is much closer to the actual price... NEW with spinner and shipping. Let's not mislead the masses here. Even $10K-ish is bad enough to cause heart palpitations!!!
__________________
Vince Frazier
www.f1aircraft.com
F1 Rocket and F4 Raider components
1-888-F1AIRCRAFT (1-888-312-4727)
www.flyboyaccessories.com
RV and Rocket Accessories, Tailwheels, Tools, & More
1-888-8FLYBOY (1-888-835-9269)
F4 Raider - under construction
F1-H Rocket "Crazy Horse" - sold
RV-4 "Chief Pontiac" - sold in 1994, purchased in 2018
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07-11-2019, 08:37 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Mount Vernon, IN
Posts: 1,270
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Paule
The F-4 is definitely buildable by a newbie. It'll take more time than a prepunched or quickbuild kit, for sure, but you can do it. See https://www.f1aircraft.com/. The project is basically roughly about as complex as an RV-4, and there are some parts available.
Dave
RV-3B, another of those non-prepunched slow-build kit, now on the fuselage.
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Indeed, hundreds of noobs built RV-4s, including ME! It's not magic, but it does require that you show up with your brain ready to learn new skills.
We have, or will tell you where to get, everything you need to build one of these machines. Help is only an email or phone call away! Having 2 NEW F1/F4s in the air already attests to the fact that mere mortals can indeed do this.
__________________
Vince Frazier
www.f1aircraft.com
F1 Rocket and F4 Raider components
1-888-F1AIRCRAFT (1-888-312-4727)
www.flyboyaccessories.com
RV and Rocket Accessories, Tailwheels, Tools, & More
1-888-8FLYBOY (1-888-835-9269)
F4 Raider - under construction
F1-H Rocket "Crazy Horse" - sold
RV-4 "Chief Pontiac" - sold in 1994, purchased in 2018
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07-11-2019, 08:49 AM
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Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Mount Vernon, IN
Posts: 1,270
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s11033
Oh wow, that?s opening a whole new can of worms for me. I always assumed that had to be done by a shop. Any idea how much money it can save? I?d much rather be rebuilding an engine than riveting together a fuselage... Is this something one can learn informally, or do I need to attend a class to lean the skills?
I guess I also learned that I like wrenching on aircraft at least as much as I like flying them, if not more. I?d rather be on the ground turning a wrench on a Rocket than in the air putting around in a 152.I started my grad degree in engineering because I realized that aviation is my passion, and that I want to make a career of it one way or another. I know that I could happily spend all my ?hobby time? building an aircraft. I?m an old soul in a millennial body, and trolling around on social media and binge watching Netflix don?t do it for me the way that getting my hands greasy does.
I think I?m in a very odd and fortunate position, where I just might be able to manage a build if I plan my use of time and money effectively.
Having said all that, I can definitely see how buying an RV4 or similar performance experimental could be a better path... Can I legally tinker and do modifications/repairs on an experimental that I did not assemble myself? For example, could I overhaul an engine myself, as someone above was suggesting?
Thanks,
Steve
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Steve,
Rebuilding an engine is a snap for someone like you. Disassemble; send everything to Aircraft Specialty Services, Divco, or similar; get it all back with yellow tags; reassemble it; and BOOM.... practically new engine for a LOT less.
I love the building part too. When you gotta build, you gotta build. If you've got the sickness, building is a cherished part of the results. Like having an aluminum baby.
Buy an RV-4.... sheesh... they will ruin you also. My RV-4, which I bought back after 25 years, ruined me and led to a Rocket addiction that appears to be incurable.
One last thought... RV-8s are excellent planes too, but build what you want, what you really want. I tried to build an RV-6 after my first Rocket, but my heart was never in it. So, on to Rocket #2!!! Woo hooo! I get jazzed everytime I look at it.
__________________
Vince Frazier
www.f1aircraft.com
F1 Rocket and F4 Raider components
1-888-F1AIRCRAFT (1-888-312-4727)
www.flyboyaccessories.com
RV and Rocket Accessories, Tailwheels, Tools, & More
1-888-8FLYBOY (1-888-835-9269)
F4 Raider - under construction
F1-H Rocket "Crazy Horse" - sold
RV-4 "Chief Pontiac" - sold in 1994, purchased in 2018
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07-11-2019, 09:53 AM
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Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Mojave
Posts: 4,652
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Plenty of debate on the -8 vs Rocket on this site, but there really is no substitute for seat time in both. Suggest you fly a Rocket first though. The -8 is so good that you might just think airplanes can't get any better... But you would be WRONG! Flying an -8 after the Rocket makes this fact glaringly obvious.
__________________
WARNING! Incorrect design and/or fabrication of aircraft and/or components may result in injury or death. Information presented in this post is based on my own experience - Reader has sole responsibility for determining accuracy or suitability for use.
Michael Robinson
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Harmon Rocket II -SDS EFI
RV-8 - SDS CPI
1940 Taylorcraft BL-65
1984 L39C
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07-11-2019, 12:14 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Ridgeland, SC
Posts: 2,589
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Vince-LOL---its was good---really!!
Tom
__________________
Tom Swearengen, TS Flightlines LLC, AS Flightlines
Joint Venture with Aircraft Specialty
Teflon Hose Assemblies for Experimentals
Proud Vendor for RV1, Donator to VAF
RV7 Tail Kit Completed, Fuse started-Pay as I go Plan
Ridgeland, SC
www.tsflightlines.com, www.asflightlines.com
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