What makes an RV junk?

[F1R]

Even if you find the most perfect RV on the planet, it will take owning it, flying it and maintaining it for a few years until you make it just the way you want it to be. If you are not going to maintain it yourself, then you will have a relationship with an A&P, so his opinion might alter what the perfect ignition system, propellor and avionics are the right set up.

As others have said, the line up at Oshkosh is a gold mine of information and a great place to get an idea of what you are looking for.

[Charles in SC]

Originally Posted by woxofswa

I took a picture at OSH of a lap seam of about 10 rivets. From it you can see that the exposed edge was hastily cut and was never run on the scotch brite wheel. You can see individual cut marks, even serrations from the blade. There are bits of burs and grit stuck in the paint and a dab of bondo type paste that was never smoothed out or sanded. Two rivets had smilies. Ten minutes of extra care would have made a world of difference.
So what junk was this on?

It was on the rear nacelle of the left engine of the $1.4 million dollar brand new Special Edition Baron that Beech displayed front and center at their OSH pavilion and that hickey shown bright two feet from where eager Beech salesmen were proudly having folks ooh and aah as they lined up dozens deep to peer inside.

About 30 odd years ago I remember reading and article about someone that made a template they could lay on top of a Baron wing to see if the airfoil was correctly shaped. They carried it around to several airports and checked all the Barons they could find. It was surprising how few of them measured up.

[rightrudder]

It's a real point of pride to have properly set rivets, even if shoddy workmanship can still provide nearly the same strength. As others have said, if there's consistency here in nice uniform rows of properly set shop heads, the attention to detail is probably quite good elsewhere.

I think a big gotcha, even on the Quik Build kits, can be inadequate (or nonexistent!) edge distance on attachment holes for the horizontal stab. A hyper-critical look at these with a flashlight and mirror should be part of any pre-buy inspection.

[Steve Barnes]

If it has over 25,000 hours on the airframe, I'd look at it carefully before buying.

[Robin8er]

I'd be impressed with an RV with 25,000 hours on it. That's on its 13th engine assuming you replaced/overhauled at 2000 hours.

[RV6_flyer]

Originally Posted by Ironflight

I think some may have misunderstood my comments above. I am not so much looking for every single rivet to be perfect. I am very satisfied with a number of bad rivets (even quite a few) in an airplane if they are spaced out. My comments were about airframes I have seen where almost every rivet was underset...or every rivet was smashed beyond recognition. Those airframes need to be completely disassembled in order to be made anything resembling acceptable. That?s my definition of a junk airframe.

And as I said - you can replace poorly installed systems - but the bones are the bones...

As Paul says, if the airframe is bad, it is easier to build new than to fix. Why tear something apart only to have to rebuild it. Sometimes the airframe is poor with bad systems. Here again it is easier to start new airframe instead of redoing part of the airframe and all the systems.

My career in aerospace was to do it right the first time. Rework was lost profit.

[skylor]

Originally Posted by Sue

Cosmetically doesn?t look that good
But structurally doesn?t appear to be
Affected? Perfect no, could it cross the
Atlantic without the left side of the
Cowling comping off, probably.

I disagree. Many of the visible rivets don?t appear to be set into the dimples. The lap joint between the side skin and the bottom skin is backwards. The top skin doesn?t even appear the lay down against the side skin towards the front. It appears that this plane is not even built correctly and I doubt that the airframe would be considered to be ?in a condition safe for flight? by an experienced builder or descent A&P.

Skylor

[KRviator]

Originally Posted by Ted RV8

I?ve found that when the workmanship suffers so does the rest of the build and rigging quality.
To me there is no place for ?that?s good enough? with an airplane.

I'd have to disagree with this, but then again, I have several notable "well, sheee-its" in my plane.

• I went off the end of the back plate on the bottom left elevator
• I dinged the rear skin back of the fuselage riveting - Still visible
• My forward canopy skirt fiberglass isn't smooth - Still visible
• My canopy frame sat proud of the front deck and needed glass to fill it
• I bent the canopy skirt tweaking the fit - still visible
• The drill bit wandered drilling out a rivet and left a snail-trail on the skin
• I mis-drilled a hole in the RMLG wheel pant to access the valve - still visible

I view each of those mistakes as talking points more than embarressments, even though those last two irk me the most, as they were done at a time when my skills should-have been better. Not one of those is structural, though I do keep an eye on the elevator for signs of future cracking. But beyond that, I fly in an aeroplane I built in my back shed. IT isn't perfect, it isn't even pretty compared to some outstanding RV's I've seen, but it is mine.

That being said, I would always recommend a thorough pre-buy on any RV, even if I was selling you mine.

[DougCronkhite]

Originally Posted by Ironflight

I think some may have misunderstood my comments above. I am not so much looking for every single rivet to be perfect. I am very satisfied with a number of bad rivets (even quite a few) in an airplane if they are spaced out. My comments were about airframes I have seen where almost every rivet was underset...or every rivet was smashed beyond recognition. Those airframes need to be completely disassembled in order to be made anything resembling acceptable. That?s my definition of a junk airframe.

And as I said - you can replace poorly installed systems - but the bones are the bones...

One wonders when you see an airplane like that how an inspector signed it off?

[fl-mike]

Originally Posted by larrynew

This might win the prize for “Junk RV” that actually flew.

LOL, I took that photo in 2007 at SnF. I just could not believe that it was signed off, and maybe it wasn't. I was a bit timid about taking too many photos, as it was scary bad. I did not photograph the N-number on purpose.
BTW, You should see the spinner! Let's just say fiberglass was not his forte...