What makes an RV junk?

[Earl Findlay]

I?m seriously pondering an RV9 or RV9A. I have heard from many in the know not to buy a ?junk? airplane. So, what makes an airplane junk? Is it incorrect to assume that if something like an RV9, coming pre-punched, is flying and has an accrued a few hundred hours that it isn?t ?junk?? Seems to me like the pre punched airplanes remove a lot of the junk factor.

Please educate me on what I do not know!!

Earl

[Mark Dickens]

Bad builder technique. There are unfortunately some people who shouldn't be allowed near a rivet gun. Search for posts from Vic Syracuse and Walt Aronow for some examples of high quality matched hole kits that have been turned into junk by some very bad builders.

[scard]

Originally Posted by Earl Findlay

Is it incorrect to assume that if something like an RV9, coming pre-punched, is flying and has an accrued a few hundred hours that it isn?t ?junk?? Seems to me like the pre punched airplanes remove a lot of the junk factor.

Please educate me on what I do not know!!

Earl

Absolutely not correct. Most of us have seen RVs that are flying, even the RV9 kind, that were absolutely "junk" and not airworthy. Fundamentally, you pretty much know one when you see it.

[RickWoodall]

Before and as i was building I spent a lot of time walking the rows of homebuilt camping rvs at oshkosh. There are rows and rows, the first few years i just could not believe the numbers. I took tons of pics and looked at everything from rivet quality, rudder seems, wheel pants, fiberglass work, canopy work. Talked to a few builders and learned more each year.
Do the same and you will learn a lot and see a lot. When you educate yourself still get a pro to inspect as there are some hidden things that would not be noticeable to rookie. There are some horrible builds out there and lots that just need a bit of love...and some absolute beauties. Good luck

[Discus2b]

Yes, true, but junk has it?s value.
Vans has actually calculated an allowed amount of junk to exist and still have an airworthy aircraft.
It?s call the Roebling factor based on Roebling bridge building slush factor to cover the unknown, such as his casement catching on fire.
Van probably use the ?3 stooges ? multiplyer figuring 33% of builders are nuckleheads and have yet to learn ?righty tighty lefty loosy? theorems, so only 1/3 of the rivets need to be actually gripping.
But, because 1/3 of DARs are also nuckleheads and will certify anything with a prop attach, junk exists.
So, the formulae to determine price is inspect 10 rivets in each wing, 10 in the fuselage, and 10 random.
Figure the ratio and multiply the asking price to get the Starting point of price negotiation.
You?re welcome.

R

[David Paule]

Originally Posted by Discus2b

....so only 1/3 of the rivets need to be actually gripping.....

Wouldn't rely on that.

Look closely. If any rivets in a visible row are bad, figure that the ones you can't see are worse, perhaps much worse -- and skip that airplane.

Dave

[PCHunt]

Find a plane you like, then hire a QUALIFIED individual to do a proper pre-buy inspection on it. Best money you will ever spend. Especially if they advise you not to buy the plane.....

You can use this wonderful forum to locate that qualified individual.

[Ironflight]

Two things would render an aircraft “junk” in my book - poor riveting, and grooves or cuts in critical structural components. The truth is, wiring and plumbing can be fixed, as can cosmetics (fiberglass, etc.). If you got sound structure, you can fix the plane with sufficient time and money (maybe lots of both). But poor structural construction pretty much destroys an airplane.

[woxofswa]

I took a picture at OSH of a lap seam of about 10 rivets. From it you can see that the exposed edge was hastily cut and was never run on the scotch brite wheel. You can see individual cut marks, even serrations from the blade. There are bits of burs and grit stuck in the paint and a dab of bondo type paste that was never smoothed out or sanded. Two rivets had smilies. Ten minutes of extra care would have made a world of difference.
So what junk was this on?

It was on the rear nacelle of the left engine of the $1.4 million dollar brand new Special Edition Baron that Beech displayed front and center at their OSH pavilion and that hickey shown bright two feet from where eager Beech salesmen were proudly having folks ooh and aah as they lined up dozens deep to peer inside.

[Larry DeCamp]

How do you define a bad flush rivet ? Many pics here display excellent results , the result of very sharp dimpling, tight hole fit and square approach from the set tool. A lot of rivets don?t appear to be Lindy Winners, but are structurally 100%.
So, short of smilies and tilted factory heads, how would you make the call ?