Surefly electronic ignition

[grubbat]

So, if a feller wanted to limit his Surefly to 36.5 degrees max advance, then all he needs to do is install it at 1.5 degrees BTDC? That setting may aid in the starter kickback syndrome some folks experience at startup. I?ve got my PMags set a whole 5 degrees BTDC to aid in preventing kickback and also limit max advance.

Originally Posted by az_gila

To be more precise for a standard Lycoming, it appears to be 36.5 degrees at 2700 rpm

https://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/712b8...40a99b37e8.pdf

[Toobuilder]

Originally Posted by pecanflyboy

Sounds like you guys have it all figured out. I look forward to the development of your product and its introduction to the market. I?m sure it will be perfect and there will be no criticism on this forum as a result of all your hard work. I can?t imagine someone undermining your success with strong opinions or speculation. Good luck!

Not sure why you seem to be taking this so personally, but I can assure you that it is not my intent to attack. However, we do have a "new" product that seems to have a few skeletons in the closet. On a technical basis, that deserves debate. So here we are.

[Toobuilder]

Originally Posted by grubbat

So, if a feller wanted to limit his Surefly to 36.5 degrees max advance, then all he needs to do is install it at 1.5 degrees BTDC? That setting may aid in the starter kickback syndrome some folks experience at startup. I?ve got my PMags set a whole 5 degrees BTDC to aid in preventing kickback and also limit max advance.

I think you meant to say AFTER TDC...

[az_gila]

Originally Posted by grubbat

So, if a feller wanted to limit his Surefly to 36.5 degrees max advance, then all he needs to do is install it at 1.5 degrees BTDC? That setting may aid in the starter kickback syndrome some folks experience at startup. I?ve got my PMags set a whole 5 degrees BTDC to aid in preventing kickback and also limit max advance.

No, just limit your RPM to the Lycoming recommended 2700 rpm...

[cojaken]

I am about to replace one of my Slicks with electronic ignition and do appreciate you all sharing your viewpoints. It's an education and will allow me to make a better informed choice.

Thank you!

[gasman]

Originally Posted by cojaken

I am about to replace one of my Slicks with electronic ignition and do appreciate you all sharing your viewpoints. It's an education and will allow me to make a better informed choice.

Thank you!

Click here....... http://www.vansairforce.com/communit...rchid=40396988 and start reading.

[Scott Hersha]

If you want to replace your Slicks with some electronic ignition system, I think you should consider empirical data from either the experts that designed it, or 3rd party experts with no interest in the system one way or the other - not from the ?experts? on this forum. Pretty much everyone here is opinionated - me included. I would, in fact I have, asked myself a few basic questions:

1. Is this system reliable (more reliable than your Slicks)
2. How much does it cost.
3. How hard is it to install on my engine.
4. How much ongoing maintenance is required.
5. Will this company be around in 10 years.

Almost all of the popular electronic ignition choices are better than traditional mechanical mags, in terms of efficiency and maintenance. All of them gain their efficiency by variable timing. Improved maintenance is due to solid state electronics and a more robust system for dealing with the hot and harsh engine environment. Some EI systems boast a ?hotter spark?. Big deal. Once the fire is lit, the job is done. If you are the kind of person that wants to tweak your engine timing on a regular basis, then the Surefly and Emags are probably not for you. There are different levels of redundancy. Some require a secondary aircraft system architecture that will need to be addressed. All of this has been done - successfully. Keep in mind, you have two mags, or two EI?s. One of them will keep you going. You need to keep at least one of them going all the time if you are going to ditch both of your Slicks.

[DanH]

Originally Posted by Scott Hersha

If you want to replace your Slicks with some electronic ignition system, I think you should consider empirical data from either the experts that designed it, or 3rd party experts with no interest in the system one way or the other - not from the ?experts? on this forum.

Scott, can I be a third party with no interest in the system one way or the other? After all, I'm not flying any of the store-bought aircraft EIs, or even a mag. My interest is keeping the BS to a minimum.

Pretty much everyone here is opinionated - me included.

Pretty much everyone everywhere is opinionated. Nothing wrong there. The question is "Does the opinion have a basis in fact?"

Allow an example. Mike's opinion is that custom, optimizing timing is the way to go. His opinion has a factual basis. I've said the Surefly's fixed timing option is a practical choice for many users. That opinion also has a factual basis. We have debated the matter, but no one is wrong.

Here the spit hits the fan because Mike's choice can't be implemented with a Surefly, and I've said the canned advance is too aggressive for an angle valve engine. Those too are facts, but they are not condemnations. I can't speak for Mike, but personally I really like the Surefly package. It's a great choice for many. It won't be the best choice for all. Honest discussion, messy as it may be, is how potential users determine if it's the best choice for their particular set of needs and interests.

[Walt]

Originally Posted by Scott Hersha

Almost all of the popular electronic ignition choices are better than traditional mechanical mags, in terms of efficiency and maintenance. All of them gain their efficiency by variable timing. Improved maintenance is due to solid state electronics and a more robust system for dealing with the hot and harsh engine environment.

Not sure I agree with the above. One of the more popular units requires removal every year to inspect, does this qualify as "improved maintenance?
I'd also contend that bolting electronics to the engine makes for about the worst possible environment imaginable for electronics.
Do higher CHT's lead to longer engine life?
What happens when one of these EI's fails away from home?
You can do quite a few 500 hrs insp on mags (every 5-6 yrs for most folks) for the price a most of these systems.

I do like some things about EI's (fuel saving when cruising at altitude) but there's no free lunch.

[jliltd]

So to be clear, Dan. Are you implying that the timing advance curve on the Surefly is currently too aggressive for a 200hp angle valve IO-360? I am ready to pull the trigger on a Surefly unit for the non-impulse mag in my Aviat Husky with the IO-360 angle valve engine with counterbalanced crank. I now find myself taking pause.

Jim
P.S. I have a PV IO-360 at Barrett Precision for a TDI with dual Pmags for my RV-8. And an RV-3B with a set of Bendix on a 160hp O-320. Maybe a set of good old CMI mags is the way to go on the Husky. This is all a brave new World that I may not be prepared to deal with.