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  #1  
Old 05-25-2019, 02:05 PM
hevansrv7a's Avatar
hevansrv7a hevansrv7a is offline
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Detroit, MI
Posts: 1,587
Question Any first hand knowledge of RV7A 200# over gross?

I have been consulting with another pilot who is considering putting in extra fuel for a very long over-water flight in a 7A. He would need to fly 200 pounds over gross weight. Naturally, I'm not encouraging that.

However, I'm trying to help him find out what others may know about doing that.

Any info you can supply would be helpful.

Also, any info on the advantages or disadvantages of an extra tank in the area of the right seat vs. adding tip tanks?

H
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We can lift ourselves out of ignorance, we can find ourselves as creatures of excellence and intelligence and skill. We can be free! We can learn to fly!" -J.L. Seagull
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  #2  
Old 05-25-2019, 03:57 PM
Discus2b Discus2b is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Willis Gliderport
Posts: 186
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I ferried a Casa 212 from Hawaii under the direction of a highly experienced ferry/Hawaiian Airline pilot. Under his tutelage, he informed me that with careful w&b checking and careful pilotage, aircraft will fly fine at 100% over gross.
And we were just about there at takeoff from Hawaii Honolulu Airport.
It took 10,000? of runway to ease off and would not climb above 2500? for 3 hrs, but it flew.
W&B
New Tires over inflated to round.
Insurance investigation....may not cover at takeoff, but begins at gross weight.
Performance....runway, density altitude, obstacles, etc.
Over Water contingency plans.
Have Vans give a wag on struts weight limits. How many Gs during the drop test. My bet over 2.
200# over wouldn?t attract my attention, its already been done.
Oh.....strap it down, accelerate sssllloooowwwlllyyyy.

R

R
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  #3  
Old 05-26-2019, 01:44 AM
Capt Capt is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: Australia
Posts: 711
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Obviously any type of operation outside of its intended use is done so at yr own risk, The above post covers most of it. A large proportion of A/C take off overweight everyday around the world including Airliners, some unintentional some not so. Disclaimer in place now.....as long as the A/C is in balance and has enuf power to gain height above the stall speed then they will fly, you are now in test pilot territory though and you do so of course at your own peril�� Safe flying��
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  #4  
Old 05-26-2019, 05:40 AM
Chris7 Chris7 is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Location: Hong Kong
Posts: 27
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Having personally ferried many aircraft (all overweight and legal), the best thing to do is talk to Van's. Being a homebuilt I doubt they would issue anything to say it's ok but at least talking to them is a good idea. The FAA may issue a small percentage over gross but again depends.
Then talk to the insurance company about it, if they won't cover it then it's a no go. I doubt he would be willing to risk it all with no insurance? Most insurance companies will cover it if there is paperwork to approve the overweight, maybe with an increased premium depending on where the flight is.

Now for the flying, 200# it most likely won't fly any different.
Definitely a tank inside is better because the load on the tips probably hasn't been tested for tip tanks.
Make 100% sure its within CofG, aircraft get very squirly if the CofG is aft (or forward even worse sometimes).

If you want to PM me, I'm happy to go into more depth because I've seen too many make bad decisions even when approved for this type of operation so my advice and help is free to prevent this.

Disclaimer, although I've done this many times (too many) its a forever learning experience so I can't cover all the needs of every flight.
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  #5  
Old 05-26-2019, 06:51 AM
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snopercod snopercod is offline
 
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Location: Asheville, NC
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In general, the stall speed will be ~54 instead of 51 (sqrt 2000/1800). Takeoff distance will be longer, climb rate will be lower.
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  #6  
Old 05-26-2019, 03:13 PM
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hevansrv7a hevansrv7a is offline
 
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Location: Detroit, MI
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Default The question has been answered. THANKS.

The pilot for whom I asked the question has obtained the answers he needed. Thanks for the help.

h
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H. Evan's RV-7A N17HH 240+ hours
"
We can lift ourselves out of ignorance, we can find ourselves as creatures of excellence and intelligence and skill. We can be free! We can learn to fly!" -J.L. Seagull
Paid $25.00 "dues" net of PayPal cost for 2015, 2016, 2017 and 2018 (December).
This airplane is for sale: see website. my website

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  #7  
Old 05-28-2019, 01:19 AM
FutureRV FutureRV is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Reno, NV
Posts: 18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Discus2b View Post
I ferried a Casa 212 from Hawaii under the direction of a highly experienced ferry/Hawaiian Airline pilot. Under his tutelage, he informed me that with careful w&b checking and careful pilotage, aircraft will fly fine at 100% over gross.
And we were just about there at takeoff from Hawaii Honolulu Airport.
It took 10,000? of runway to ease off and would not climb above 2500? for 3 hrs, but it flew.
W&B
New Tires over inflated to round.
Insurance investigation....may not cover at takeoff, but begins at gross weight.
Performance....runway, density altitude, obstacles, etc.
Over Water contingency plans.
Have Vans give a wag on struts weight limits. How many Gs during the drop test. My bet over 2.
200# over wouldn?t attract my attention, its already been done.
Oh.....strap it down, accelerate sssllloooowwwlllyyyy.

R

R
Was that around 1990. I ask because a Casa 212 being ferried from Tonga broke down in Pago Pago. I flew a test flight witn a Hawaiian Pilot in the aircraft ferry business. If so, small world.
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  #8  
Old 05-28-2019, 06:46 AM
Discus2b Discus2b is offline
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Willis Gliderport
Posts: 186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FutureRV View Post
Was that around 1990. I ask because a Casa 212 being ferried from Tonga broke down in Pago Pago. I flew a test flight witn a Hawaiian Pilot in the aircraft ferry business. If so, small world.
No, around ?85 as I?m not home to check the log books. 1990 I was flying C-130s. Ahhhh, memories. What little I can remember.

R
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  #9  
Old 05-28-2019, 07:02 AM
sailvi767 sailvi767 is offline
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Charlotte NC
Posts: 1,388
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You might try and track down the owner of N577DL.
George

http://www.vansairforce.com/communit...ad.php?t=83504
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  #10  
Old 05-28-2019, 12:32 PM
scsmith scsmith is offline
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Ashland, OR
Posts: 2,968
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One of the issues for flight at weights above recommended gross weight is structural margin, primarily due to gust loads. You can impose your own maneuver load limit in proportion to the weight addition to preserve margin, but you can't control gusts, except by choosing your flying environment.

This is one thing where tip tanks are better than a fuselage tank. You get "inertia relief" from the added weight, especially at the tip, that reduces the gust loads pretty dramatically.

I would still recommend a structural analysis under Part 23 gust load criteria as part of the design process. But it is not too difficult.
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