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05-23-2019, 01:54 AM
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Join Date: Aug 2017
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 279
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I use this and I reckon it is great - the 2 batteries are very handy, and it’s not that expensive. And it’s silent compared to the airdrill so I can use it at night.
The best part is the keyless chuck / my air drill had a keyed chuck and it took time to change the bits over (time to find the chuck key). This one I reckon is much better. I use it for countersinking using the cage as well.
I have found I never use the die grinder - dangerous, loud and uses too much air. Instead I mount a AlO2 flapper wheel or a 1” scotchbrite in my drill press and move the part - even the 3m long fuse longerons. For cut off wheels I use a battery powered Dremel.
https://www.ryobi.com.au/power-tools.../12v-drill-kit
YMMV!
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05-23-2019, 08:47 AM
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Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Chandler, AZ
Posts: 10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Paule
Ali, these airplanes need some riveting. And a hand squeezer isn't going to manage all of them. Some of them need a rivet gun, and for that you'll need a source of compressed air.
Dave
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Just to clarify I don't intend on skipping a compressor. My original question was whether I can skip buying a large compressor that can handle an air drill and pneumatic grinder. Even a 2 stage 220V compressor will struggle to maintain the 20 CFM requirement of most air drills. I don't have any problems buying a medium performance compressor that can handle a rivet gun.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sblack
If you grab the keyless chuck on most chordless drills it will wiggle. The cheaper the drill the looser the chuck is. The good air drills have solid ball bearings and they are tight. A loose spindle means more runout and therefore a bigger hole with the same bit. That's before you consider the runout of the chuck. Is this a big deal? There are milspecs that dictate what the tolerances are for rivets to achieve full strength. Those are what I would consult to see if this level of accuracy is relevant or not. I certainly would not rely on somebidy saying "I built my whole airplane that way" as any sort of evidence that it is ok.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JonJay
Scott is spot on. Also, every guide you will find wants your drill to be spinning at 2000-3000 rpm for aluminum for most hole sizes in an RV. Why? That is where proper drill pressure will allow good chip production, the bit is doing the work, clearing and cooling by passing material. You?re not tearing the material out of the hole, you?re cutting it out.
All this doesn?t mean a lot when we are just drilling sheet. It is a pretty low tolerance task for most RV work.
However, pick up your Sioux spinning at 2400rpm, then you?re typical rechargeable or electric spinning at? Less than 1000, some better ones up to 2000? Less? You will notice the pressure it takes to drill vs the Sioux, or better pneumatic.
So, does it matter? I have no doubt you can build an RV without a pneumatic drill. Can you find one that spins up to recommendations, has decent bearings, chuck, etc....? That?s what I would want if I headed down that path.
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My intentions were to do most of my drilling in a drill press. Those can typically do 2900-3300 RPM with decent amount of torque. The downside is that I can't use a drill press on an assembled body since it'll be too big to fit inside the drill press work space. That's when I will have to rely on a electric hand drill.
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05-23-2019, 09:09 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Southern Maryland
Posts: 134
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Quote:
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My intentions were to do most of my drilling in a drill press.
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I'd guess that 90% of drilling operations for this whole plane will be in place, and a drill press will be of no help in those situations.
__________________
RV-7:
Empennage complete!
Wings in progress
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05-23-2019, 09:23 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Calgary, Alberta
Posts: 1,005
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I agree with Girraf
For RV construction, you will find that the majority (90+%) of drilling will be done with a hand drill, it is still nice to have the drill press for some functions. A light, high speed, re-chargable drill would be good for majority (80+%) of the hand drilling. A die grinder is nice to have for the odd job, but will not see much usage in assembling these planes. A 120V portable compressor will hold up to usage for most hand tools generally as these tools don't call for sustained delivery of volume air, you still have to take breaks to consult the plans & such! Where the smaller compressors fall short is when used for painting, high volumes at sustained pressure will tax even some high capacity compressor systems.
On the question of going standard build vs QB, If you can afford the very economically priced time & build quality advantage QBs offer, GO FOR IT!
__________________
Ralph
built a few RVs, rebuilt a few more, hot rodded some, & maintained/updated a bunch more
Last edited by Ralph Inkster : 05-23-2019 at 09:26 AM.
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05-23-2019, 09:42 AM
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Join Date: May 2006
Location: Pocahontas MS
Posts: 3,884
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Ali,
Bottom line is that almost any small compressor will do fine for building an RV. As others have said, air grinders won't see a lot of use, and there are electric alternatives, anyway. Contrary to the opinions from the 'space certified' crowd, you can get a cordless drill that's perfectly adequate for drilling operations, sacrificing only size/weight, and speed.
On the other hand, an air drill, unlike an air grinder or spray gun, will not significantly tax a small compressor. The small 'palm drills' typically used to build RVs just don't use that much air. You'll be running a drill in very short bursts when match drilling, or with much longer time gaps between drilling operations, if you're drilling 'raw' holes.
Buy whatever size compressor you're willing to 'feed' (whether in electricity or money), knowing that you can still build the plane.
For a little perspective: Back in the days before quickbuild kits, even before kits, by any current definition, and obviously long before the internet, aluminum a/c got built in home shops without any compressor at all, literally using hammers to set the rivets. Know that you can do this, without spending more on the tools than the plane.
Charlie
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05-23-2019, 10:57 AM
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Montreal
Posts: 1,456
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I just bought a tiny compressor from horror fraught for $57. I bet it would spin an air drill just fine. At least for long enough to drill a hole. Spend your money on good air tools. They are a pleasure to use and do accurate work. Air die grinder is a nice to have, but you can substitute files, elbow grease and enthusiasm. Not how I would do it but everyone is different. I look at all the tools I have needed on mine and I probably should have bought them all at once and saved a LOT of shipping. dimple dies, clecos, drills, hole finders, rivet sets and on and on. You need it all. but it's true you don't need a 60 gallon compressor. But I wouldn't part with mine 
__________________
Scott Black
Old school simple VFR RV 4, O-320, wood prop, MGL iEfis Lite
VAF dues 2020
Instagram @sblack2154
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05-23-2019, 01:11 PM
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Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 267
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No, you don't need a 2-stage or 30 gallon air tank to build. Honestly even when match or final drilling, you are not constantly using the tool where you need 100 CFM output at 250 PSI. (sorry slight sarcasm).
Can you get by with a 3 Gallon pancake compressor? yea, but you may find that the compressor will run non-stop and you may have to let it sit every now and then.
An 8 Gallon portable compressor with 4.1 SFCM at 90 PSI should meet needs for most jobs when building. Exceptions may be if you plan on using an air-powered sander, or grinder for large areas.
With a 12 gallon tank I bought years ago, the only time I had to wait for the tank to recharge because it couldn't keep up was when I was using the air grinder with a 3m wheel for deburring.
As others have said, the modern cordless drills and other tools are more than sufficient. It's all a matter of preference.
__________________
Brian Lester
Dues Paid - 2020
RV10 Slow Build - #41778
Finish Kit - in progress
RV10builder.com
KVKX / KHEF
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05-23-2019, 02:15 PM
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Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: San Antonio, TX
Posts: 1,024
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Jay Pratt has built about 50 RVs in his shop and all he has for a compressor is a small 15 or 20 gal type compressor, probably from Sears over 20 years ago.
Just sayin....
Also, I don't think I have even used my Sioux drills for my last two builds. I use a couple of DeWalt 20A lithium drills and I have several dremels that I use a lot, including for cutting canopies.
__________________
Steve Formhals
A&P, Tech Counselor & Flight Advisor
RV3B
RV8
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05-23-2019, 02:44 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: WNC
Posts: 246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sblack
I just bought a tiny compressor from horror fraught for $57. I bet it would spin an air drill just fine. At least for long enough to drill a hole.
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An air drill under no load needs something like 5 cfm @ 90 psi. With intermittent usage final drilling pre-punched holes you'll be within the spec on the compressor. When you go to actually drill a new hole the cfm requirement jumps up to 15-20 cfm. Sioux rates their palm drills at 20 cfm max.
I have two compressors. One is a ~2.5 cfm quiet Kobalt that I use for final drilling, riveting, clecoing, and light die grinder usage for edge prep. That compressor would not run the air drill going through the 1/8" thick longerons along the tailcone. I could get MAYBE 2-3 holes and then I'd have to wait 2-3 minutes for it to catch up. So I had to run a line through the house to my other compressor - a 60 gallon 18 CFM compressor. That compressor could keep up but it was running around 50-60% of the time.
So yeah it'll drill ONE hole no problem.
I really like using the air drill. It's so much lighter than my electric drill. I haven't tried one of the Bosch mini electric drills though. They seem nice with comparable weight and would probably work just as well.
I'm honestly pretty close to punching a hole through the garage and running a hard line to the basement so I can have unlimited air again.
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05-23-2019, 04:02 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Edson, Alberta, Canada
Posts: 483
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Compressor
Started with a 20 gallon tank and 110V compressor and it did it all.
True, one had to wait sometime to let it cool or just catch up. It was loud and oilless though.
Happened across an auction and bought a 60 gallon 220 V that i wired in myself(saved a buck) and could not be happier! Quiet, lots of air and when i paint it the CFM rating will handle ANY paint load. I paid 200 bucks Cdn and it works perfect.
Would I purchase new at 800 Cdn., no! Really wasnt necessary, even painting could be done with the smaller, louder one but you would have to make sure you planned it, as if you run out of air the paint might form an edge as it dried before air was up again.
I do love my air tools and not sure about the "specs" on drilling but i feel the air drill does make a better faster hole.
Dave
__________________
Dave Cobb
[color="Red"]=VAF=2019 Donation - and a bit extra for great work![/COLOR="blue"]
Empennage RV 7 - Tipper
Wings complete
Dynon installed and running
Fuse closer to completion, Canopy complete
AME reviewed and repaired O-320-Lyc installed
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