What makes the RV14 kit faster to build?

[GPV]

Thanks, I think I'm sold!

[rvbuilder2002]

Originally Posted by GPV

Haha to be honest it's got plenty, it's just that when comparing the 7 and 14 on paper the 7 climbs 500-odd fpm faster.

The specified difference is about 350 FPM but that is with the RV-14 carrying an additional 100 lbs of useful load (~800, vs the RV-7's 700).
With that taken into account the the climb capability is nearly the same.

[Keith Rush]

I'm in the research process being deployed at the moment, but wanted to ask about de-burring. If the holes on the 14 are already punched final size, do those holes still need to be de-burred? I'm assuming so, but wanted to ask as I'm still learning the process.

Would using a #40 reamer on the holes once cleco'd together speed the process up? Only reason I ask is I had read on someone's forum once that had built several RV's that using a reamer for final drilling left such a clean hole that you would not need to de-burr the holes. I have no clue one way or the other as I have never built one yet.

Keith

[mturnerb]

Originally Posted by Keith Rush

I'm in the research process being deployed at the moment, but wanted to ask about de-burring. If the holes on the 14 are already punched final size, do those holes still need to be de-burred? I'm assuming so, but wanted to ask as I'm still learning the process.

Would using a #40 reamer on the holes once cleco'd together speed the process up? Only reason I ask is I had read on someone's forum once that had built several RV's that using a reamer for final drilling left such a clean hole that you would not need to de-burr the holes. I have no clue one way or the other as I have never built one yet.

Keith

What I found is that they need deburring "on condition" - the holes are generally punched to size and need no deburring. In most of those instances, a bit of light work with Scotchbrite is all that's needed - usually on the "exit" side of the punched hole.

Synergy Air teaches a method of dimpling skins with the blue vinyl still in place - you can't deburr with vinyl in place so they're confident in the quality of the holes with no deburring (and my understanding is that Van's is OK with this).

You have to read the instructions carefully though - some parts are common with other models or for other reasons are punched undersized. In these cases the instructions tell you to match- or final- drill, in which case deburring should be considered likely. I like using reamers and found that in many but not all cases holes final drilled with reamer are clean enough that no deburring is needed.

Regarding climb rates, it should be noted that most folks are finding CHT's to be much better in climb on the -14 models that other Van's models (oil temps tend to be hotter). Step climbing is necessary for some. So the -14 may be pretty equal overall with the 7 for that reason. I live in Florida and have had zero issues with high CHT on climb, but I usually fly early in the day. That said, we're just getting into our real summer weather here.

[joe gremlin]

Originally Posted by Bavafa

The kit also comes with many items that you might need to purchase separately with other kit, hence less time researching.

I've heard this mentioned before but I don't believe I've ever found a good description of what all is included that isn't included in the other kits and/or what those items would likely cost if needed to be purchased separately. Can anyone shed some light on that?

[Bavafa]

Originally Posted by joe gremlin

I've heard this mentioned before but I don't believe I've ever found a good description of what all is included that isn't included in the other kits and/or what those items would likely cost if needed to be purchased separately. Can anyone shed some light on that?

Wiring aside, which frankly I did not use any of them and returned them for good chunk of $$$, things like Andair fuel selector (this is an upgrade to the VANS basic model), dual break, sniffle valve, defrost fans. Just a short list that comes to mind. Perhaps none of these are necessary and could be removed from the list or returned for credit but it is a well thought out list, in my opinion. I suspect the cost will be cheaper as part of the kit since VANs discounts the items that comes in a kit.

[joe gremlin]

Originally Posted by Bavafa

Wiring aside, which frankly I did not use any of them and returned them for good chunk of $$$, things like Andair fuel selector (this is an upgrade to the VANS basic model), dual break, sniffle valve, defrost fans. Just a short list that comes to mind. Perhaps none of these are necessary and could be removed from the list or returned for credit but it is a well thought out list, in my opinion. I suspect the cost will be cheaper as part of the kit since VANs discounts the items that comes in a kit.

I was thinking more in terms of weighing the pros and cons of a 9 vs a 14. I like the roominess of the 14, but the cost premium is hard to swallow. There is no doubt that a 14 will cost more simply because its very unlikely you'd find a used motor for it so that option goes away. Can't opt to use a fixed pitch prop either. But it would be a bit easier to justify if most of the $10k cost difference between the kits was offset because you're actually getting about $10k worth of items that you'd have to buy anyway if you went with a 9 kit.

Like I said, I've seen this discussed (the kits costs more but you get more) but I've never seen anyone put any real numbers on it.

[mturnerb]

Originally Posted by joe gremlin

I was thinking more in terms of weighing the pros and cons of a 9 vs a 14. I like the roominess of the 14, but the cost premium is hard to swallow. There is no doubt that a 14 will cost more simply because its very unlikely you'd find a used motor for it so that option goes away. Can't opt to use a fixed pitch prop either. But it would be a bit easier to justify if most of the $10k cost difference between the kits was offset because you're actually getting about $10k worth of items that you'd have to buy anyway if you went with a 9 kit.

Like I said, I've seen this discussed (the kits costs more but you get more) but I've never seen anyone put any real numbers on it.

I don't think it's reasonable to compare a larger/heavier/more powerful airplane to another and expect costs to be "close". On the flip side, the value of the 14 will be higher when done, so the money isn't disappearing. Not sure I understand why you'd need to justify the difference - they're different airplanes.

[KleensRV6]

http://www.vansairforce.com/communit...hlight=Bmarvel
Bill Marvel has provided a very unbiased review of his 14 after 300+ hours of flight. I know him for the engineer that he is and for him to praise the build process of the 14 Van has really gotten it right.

[joe gremlin]

Originally Posted by mturnerb

Not sure I understand why you'd need to justify the difference - they're different airplanes.

Different airplanes, same mission. Two seat traveling. Either one would work for that.

Also don't get too hung up on the word justify. Its not so much justifying as understanding what the costs will be. All the information I can find says the 9 will be cheaper. But then I see 'yeah but the 14 includes a lot of stuff you'd have to buy anyway if you building something like a 9'.

I'd like to understand what these items are and what they'll cost for budgeting purposes if nothing else. And yeah, on some level I'd hate to go into a 9 because it looks like it will be X cheaper than a 14 and then find out when its all said and done it was only Y cheaper because of things like these mystery items.