|
-
POSTING RULES

-
Donate yearly (please).
-
Advertise in here!
-
Today's Posts
|
Insert Pics
|

07-24-2018, 08:25 AM
|
 |
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: SC
Posts: 12,887
|
|
Hans, I am sorry to hear about your friend.
That is an interesting report.
I have never spoken with anyone who's P-mags would not self power above ~800 RPM.
This is also one reason why the internal generators should be tested before each flight.
I had one generator fail in flight and did not know it until the next preflight. Even then, the ship's electrical system powered the ignition without even a stumble.
If your P-mags are not self powering above ~800 RPM's, then you need to have a discussion with Emag. They are designed to to provide power when the prop is turning slowly on final.
__________________
Bill R.
RV-9 (Yes, it's a dragon tail)
O-360 w/ dual P-mags
Build the plane you want, not the plane others want you to build!
SC86 - Easley, SC
www.repucci.com/bill/baf.html
|

07-24-2018, 08:34 AM
|
 |
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: KSGJ / TJBQ
Posts: 2,039
|
|
I am very sorry to hear about your friend. It still hurts but unfortunately, if you are in aviation long enough you will eventually loose a friend.
I don't know all the details of this case but, with any airplane safety of flight system, redundancy is critical. In my case I have the engine driven alternator, the airplane battery and the P-Mag(s) internal generators (triple redundant) for ignition power. I also know, and have on my emergency action checklist, never to go below1,000rpm(s) in flight if I even suspect an electrical failure to the ignition. I check the 1,000rpm number during every engine run-up portion of the pre-flight check. Without a similar installation/procedure then you really need to re-think the basic installation design. No matter what, things will fail so minimize the posibility and consequence(s) of ALL critical equipment failures.
Just my 2 cents.

__________________
Galin
CP-ASEL-AMEL-IR
FCC Radiotelephone (PG) with Radar Endorsement
2020 Donation made
www.PuertoRicoFlyer.com
Last edited by GalinHdz : 07-24-2018 at 09:25 AM.
|

07-24-2018, 08:46 AM
|
 |
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: SC
Posts: 12,887
|
|
Hans, I am sorry to hear about your friend.
That is an interesting report.
I have never spoken with anyone who's P-mags would not self power above ~800 RPM.
This is also one reason why the internal generators should be tested before each flight.
I had one generator fail in flight and did not know it until the next preflight. Even then, the ship's electrical system powered the ignition without even a stumble.
If your P-mags are not self powering above ~800 RPM's, then you need to have a discussion with Emag. They are designed to to provide power when the prop is turning slowly on final.
__________________
Bill R.
RV-9 (Yes, it's a dragon tail)
O-360 w/ dual P-mags
Build the plane you want, not the plane others want you to build!
SC86 - Easley, SC
www.repucci.com/bill/baf.html
|

07-24-2018, 12:14 PM
|
 |
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Hilversum, The Netherlands
Posts: 145
|
|
Thanks guys. In all fairness, he was not a close friend. Nevertheless, I received RV flying pics from him from all over the place, all the way up to Mali and some other places deep down in Africa. I guess he figured that if he could land an Air France 747 there, he might as well do the same with his RV. Sad that he met his Waterloo in his own back yard...
Anyway, back to the PMAGs. We too check ours before flight. They were wired with just CBs when we purchased the plane, and we've added switches so that we can cut battery power to check for proper operation. Ours cut off somewhere between 800 and 900 rpm.
As for flying - I tend to come in high and fast and use sir Isaac Newton as my main propulsion during final, ideally bleeding my speed off in the last few hundred yards. In my Jodel with a huge constant speed prop this is easy. As in my Fly Baby with tons of exposed rigging wires. More of a challenge in a fixed pitch -4.
I like to believe that I would be ok even if the engine would quit on me on final. Still, good to keep this aspect of the PMAGs in mind, and mention it in a PMAG reliability topic such as this...
Be safe!
Hans
__________________
Hans Teijgeler
Hilversum, The Netherlands
Resurrecting an RV-3B
PH-BRR Bowers Fly Baby; Imported and upgraded
PH-MGA Jodel DR1050; Built, with Subaru EJ25
PH-SUM RV-4; Imported and upgraded. Sold my share :-(
PH-EIL RV-4; Imported and upgraded for friend. Sadly crashed
PH-ERD Robin DR300; Built with Subaru EZ30 for friend.
|

07-25-2018, 05:22 AM
|
 |
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: SC
Posts: 12,887
|
|
Hans, next time you fly, do a couple of landings and note your RPM's on final. If you are like me you normally don't look at it but I typically find mine to be around 1,000. Now I was messing with my idle last month and with my lightweight prop had it set so low the engine would stop on final, even with the P-mags firing. My engine is now set to idle right at 600 RPM's when warm.
My style of flying is much like yours. I try to make my landing spot without touching the throttle after I close it on downwind.
__________________
Bill R.
RV-9 (Yes, it's a dragon tail)
O-360 w/ dual P-mags
Build the plane you want, not the plane others want you to build!
SC86 - Easley, SC
www.repucci.com/bill/baf.html
|

04-30-2019, 09:22 PM
|
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: C27
Posts: 52
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by rv6ejguy
"Lost Timing" events would certainly worry me.
You can do all the analysis you want but in the end, the system either works properly all the time or it doesn't which means it's either well designed and tested or it isn't.
Nigel's independent testing uncovered several things about the product that people may not have known before. Information is good.
We don't worry about lost timing events or programming changes which don't take hold with SDS because they never happen. Change the timing on CPI and it's instant and accurate to within 1 degree. Shut off the unit or lose power while the engine is turning and it re-initializes and verifies crank position before starting the spark train again when power is restored. Anything else is not acceptable in our view.
|
...And THIS sums up why I'm ordering the new CPI2 along with a Slick mag for my Thunderbolt 390.
Thanks to everyone for their transparency. I really do get alot of information from a forum like this.
__________________
Jim Fisher
Manchester, IA
RV-14A 140411 Began Jan 2018
Finishing up wheel fairings
2020 Dues Paid
|

04-30-2019, 11:17 PM
|
|
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 3,351
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by rv6ejguy
You can do all the analysis you want but in the end, the system either works properly all the time or it doesn't which means it's either well designed and tested or it isn't.
|
With that, perhaps we should never trust or use a Lycoming engine and render it poor design since there has been a few failures on those engine.
__________________
Mehrdad
N825SM RV7A - IO360M1B - SOLD
N825MS RV14A - IO390 - Flying
Dues paid
Last edited by Bavafa : 04-30-2019 at 11:19 PM.
|

05-01-2019, 06:21 AM
|
 |
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Calgary, Canada
Posts: 5,766
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bavafa
With that, perhaps we should never trust or use a Lycoming engine and render it poor design since there has been a few failures on those engine.
|
How do you stretch my comment to Lycoming engines? We're talking EIs here. Anything can fail, mechanical or electronic. My comment was about specific design aspects on one EI which affected operation for years.
In my occupation, I get to hear all the bad stuff/ failures about not only our products, but also competitor's products from people using them in the field.
Do you believe "lost timing" and starting kickback events are acceptable on EI systems?
|

05-01-2019, 06:26 AM
|
 |
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Newport, TN
Posts: 7,496
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by rv6ejguy
Do you believe "lost timing" and starting kickback events are acceptable on EI systems?
|
Ross,
I am interested in your products for my RV10 and will be considering them when I get to that point but both of these issues have been resolved for some time with the P-Mags. Many of these reports of failures leave out critical information and in many cases turn out to be installation issues or failure to update to the latest hardware/firmware or just plain old operator error.
My biggest beef with the P-Mag is the aggressive advance curve. As I reported six years ago, it is too aggressive. http://www.vansairforce.com/communit...ighlight=curve
I use the limited programmability of the P-Mag to keep the advance under control.
Last edited by Brantel : 05-01-2019 at 06:34 AM.
|

05-01-2019, 07:43 AM
|
|
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 300
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brantel
Ross,
I am interested in your products for my RV10 and will be considering them when I get to that point but both of these issues have been resolved for some time with the P-Mags. Many of these reports of failures leave out critical information and in many cases turn out to be installation issues or failure to update to the latest hardware/firmware or just plain old operator error.
My biggest beef with the P-Mag is the aggressive advance curve. As I reported six years ago, it is too aggressive. http://www.vansairforce.com/communit...ighlight=curve
I use the limited programmability of the P-Mag to keep the advance under control.
|
Except that the 6-cyl PMag is still pretty much vaporware.
__________________
Matt
CFI / RV-10
|
| Thread Tools |
Search this Thread |
|
|
|
| Display Modes |
Linear Mode
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:56 AM.
|