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  #161  
Old 07-24-2018, 08:25 AM
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N941WR N941WR is offline
 
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Hans, I am sorry to hear about your friend.

That is an interesting report.

I have never spoken with anyone who's P-mags would not self power above ~800 RPM.

This is also one reason why the internal generators should be tested before each flight.

I had one generator fail in flight and did not know it until the next preflight. Even then, the ship's electrical system powered the ignition without even a stumble.

If your P-mags are not self powering above ~800 RPM's, then you need to have a discussion with Emag. They are designed to to provide power when the prop is turning slowly on final.
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RV-9 (Yes, it's a dragon tail)
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  #162  
Old 07-24-2018, 08:34 AM
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GalinHdz GalinHdz is offline
 
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I am very sorry to hear about your friend. It still hurts but unfortunately, if you are in aviation long enough you will eventually loose a friend.

I don't know all the details of this case but, with any airplane safety of flight system, redundancy is critical. In my case I have the engine driven alternator, the airplane battery and the P-Mag(s) internal generators (triple redundant) for ignition power. I also know, and have on my emergency action checklist, never to go below1,000rpm(s) in flight if I even suspect an electrical failure to the ignition. I check the 1,000rpm number during every engine run-up portion of the pre-flight check. Without a similar installation/procedure then you really need to re-think the basic installation design. No matter what, things will fail so minimize the posibility and consequence(s) of ALL critical equipment failures.

Just my 2 cents.

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Last edited by GalinHdz : 07-24-2018 at 09:25 AM.
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  #163  
Old 07-24-2018, 08:46 AM
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N941WR N941WR is offline
 
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Hans, I am sorry to hear about your friend.

That is an interesting report.

I have never spoken with anyone who's P-mags would not self power above ~800 RPM.

This is also one reason why the internal generators should be tested before each flight.

I had one generator fail in flight and did not know it until the next preflight. Even then, the ship's electrical system powered the ignition without even a stumble.

If your P-mags are not self powering above ~800 RPM's, then you need to have a discussion with Emag. They are designed to to provide power when the prop is turning slowly on final.
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Bill R.
RV-9 (Yes, it's a dragon tail)
O-360 w/ dual P-mags
Build the plane you want, not the plane others want you to build!
SC86 - Easley, SC
www.repucci.com/bill/baf.html
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  #164  
Old 07-24-2018, 12:14 PM
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Lufthans Lufthans is offline
 
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Thanks guys. In all fairness, he was not a close friend. Nevertheless, I received RV flying pics from him from all over the place, all the way up to Mali and some other places deep down in Africa. I guess he figured that if he could land an Air France 747 there, he might as well do the same with his RV. Sad that he met his Waterloo in his own back yard...

Anyway, back to the PMAGs. We too check ours before flight. They were wired with just CBs when we purchased the plane, and we've added switches so that we can cut battery power to check for proper operation. Ours cut off somewhere between 800 and 900 rpm.

As for flying - I tend to come in high and fast and use sir Isaac Newton as my main propulsion during final, ideally bleeding my speed off in the last few hundred yards. In my Jodel with a huge constant speed prop this is easy. As in my Fly Baby with tons of exposed rigging wires. More of a challenge in a fixed pitch -4.

I like to believe that I would be ok even if the engine would quit on me on final. Still, good to keep this aspect of the PMAGs in mind, and mention it in a PMAG reliability topic such as this...

Be safe!

Hans
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  #165  
Old 07-25-2018, 05:22 AM
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N941WR N941WR is offline
 
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Hans, next time you fly, do a couple of landings and note your RPM's on final. If you are like me you normally don't look at it but I typically find mine to be around 1,000. Now I was messing with my idle last month and with my lightweight prop had it set so low the engine would stop on final, even with the P-mags firing. My engine is now set to idle right at 600 RPM's when warm.

My style of flying is much like yours. I try to make my landing spot without touching the throttle after I close it on downwind.
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RV-9 (Yes, it's a dragon tail)
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Build the plane you want, not the plane others want you to build!
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  #166  
Old 04-30-2019, 09:22 PM
jfisher jfisher is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rv6ejguy View Post
"Lost Timing" events would certainly worry me.

You can do all the analysis you want but in the end, the system either works properly all the time or it doesn't which means it's either well designed and tested or it isn't.

Nigel's independent testing uncovered several things about the product that people may not have known before. Information is good.

We don't worry about lost timing events or programming changes which don't take hold with SDS because they never happen. Change the timing on CPI and it's instant and accurate to within 1 degree. Shut off the unit or lose power while the engine is turning and it re-initializes and verifies crank position before starting the spark train again when power is restored. Anything else is not acceptable in our view.

...And THIS sums up why I'm ordering the new CPI2 along with a Slick mag for my Thunderbolt 390.

Thanks to everyone for their transparency. I really do get alot of information from a forum like this.
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  #167  
Old 04-30-2019, 11:17 PM
Bavafa Bavafa is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rv6ejguy View Post
You can do all the analysis you want but in the end, the system either works properly all the time or it doesn't which means it's either well designed and tested or it isn't.
With that, perhaps we should never trust or use a Lycoming engine and render it poor design since there has been a few failures on those engine.
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Last edited by Bavafa : 04-30-2019 at 11:19 PM.
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  #168  
Old 05-01-2019, 06:21 AM
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rv6ejguy rv6ejguy is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bavafa View Post
With that, perhaps we should never trust or use a Lycoming engine and render it poor design since there has been a few failures on those engine.
How do you stretch my comment to Lycoming engines? We're talking EIs here. Anything can fail, mechanical or electronic. My comment was about specific design aspects on one EI which affected operation for years.

In my occupation, I get to hear all the bad stuff/ failures about not only our products, but also competitor's products from people using them in the field.

Do you believe "lost timing" and starting kickback events are acceptable on EI systems?
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Turbo Subaru EJ22, SDS EFI, Marcotte M-300, IVO, Shorai- RV6A C-GVZX flying from CYBW since 2003- 441.0 hrs. on the Hobbs,
RV10 95% built- Sold 2016
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  #169  
Old 05-01-2019, 06:26 AM
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Brantel Brantel is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rv6ejguy View Post
Do you believe "lost timing" and starting kickback events are acceptable on EI systems?
Ross,

I am interested in your products for my RV10 and will be considering them when I get to that point but both of these issues have been resolved for some time with the P-Mags. Many of these reports of failures leave out critical information and in many cases turn out to be installation issues or failure to update to the latest hardware/firmware or just plain old operator error.

My biggest beef with the P-Mag is the aggressive advance curve. As I reported six years ago, it is too aggressive. http://www.vansairforce.com/communit...ighlight=curve

I use the limited programmability of the P-Mag to keep the advance under control.
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Last edited by Brantel : 05-01-2019 at 06:34 AM.
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  #170  
Old 05-01-2019, 07:43 AM
rdrcrmatt rdrcrmatt is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brantel View Post
Ross,

I am interested in your products for my RV10 and will be considering them when I get to that point but both of these issues have been resolved for some time with the P-Mags. Many of these reports of failures leave out critical information and in many cases turn out to be installation issues or failure to update to the latest hardware/firmware or just plain old operator error.

My biggest beef with the P-Mag is the aggressive advance curve. As I reported six years ago, it is too aggressive. http://www.vansairforce.com/communit...ighlight=curve

I use the limited programmability of the P-Mag to keep the advance under control.
Except that the 6-cyl PMag is still pretty much vaporware.
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