Sad Story

[Scott Hersha]

This story is meant to be a warning to those who didn’t know about what I am about to tell you, and an education to those who aren’t involved in something like this but may be considering it.

I have a recently completed RV8, my third RV build, and I have a co-owner/partnership LLC with two of us, to spread out the costs of ownership. I completed the build on this RV8 last April 24th and flew it on that day, after my FAA inspection. About a month later, my partner, a Delta pilot (I am a retired Delta pilot and knew and flew trips with this partner), decided to acquaint himself with our new airplane and went through the engine start procedure. He had been to Florida and got 5 hours of dual in an RV6 as required by our insurance company. I had gone through this start procedure with him and showed him what to look for on our Garmin G3X Tough EFIS. At this point I had already flown 16.7 hours in Phase 1. Unfortunately during his engine start, with the throttle set too high and he not being familiar, the engine revved and the tail came up making the prop contact the ground - prop strike! This resulted in a new prop, and sending the engine to my engine builder, JB Aircraft Engine Service in Sebring, FL. My partner felt very bad about his mistake, and ended up selling his half of the airplane to another Delta friend. This friend went out to Houston and got two days of training with Bruce Bohannon in his dual control RV8. That was in the fall of last year. Things went along well until recently. My new partner had about 30 hours in our RV8 as of Sun N Fun this year. I had the plane on display at SNF at JB Aircrft Engines exhibit, and I entered it in the judging. I won an award - Outstanding Wormanship Award - I wasn’t the only one to receive this award. My new partner came to FL for the last day of the show, and flew home with me. I flew to Nashville, where I hopped out to spend time with family, and my partner took the RV on home to Cincinnati. Unfortunately, when he landed (calm winds) he ground looped it and ended up off the runway in soft wet dirt - on his nose. The engine is off, once again, and will be returned to JB for the tear down inspection - again.... New prop, again, all accessories inspected/overhauled, again, and huge amounts of work for me, who built the airplane and have done this whole redo thing twice now, without ever having damaged any airplane in 47 years of flying and 30 years of airplane ownership.

What’s this long story got to do with anything??? Well, it has to do with insurance and something that some of you may not have considered - I didn’t. Our original insurance policy is still in effect and will renew on April 24. They increased our policy from $2000 ($130K Hull) to $5100 because of the first claim last year. Now, after the second accident that just happened last Saturday, our new renew policy has increased to $10,600. On my last RV8, that I owned by myself, my insurance cost $1200. I am not OK with 10.6K. I asked my insurance agent if I could be the only named pilot, and what that would cost, since I’ve never had an accident or claim. Answer - no difference. In fact, if I decided to buy my partner out and go it alone, the insurance policy doesn’t change. And get this - another insurance company won’t even give me any insurance for at least a year, maybe longer, even if I sell this airplane and buy a different one by myself without my partner. It seems my current insurance carrier is stuck with me/us as if they have some sort of code that requires this, and other carriers have placed a cloud over my head and won’t cover me... and I’m not the one that caused the claim, and I never have had a claim!! Basically, I won’t be able to fly again for at least a year, unless I want to pay the exorbitant rates being asked by my current insurance carrier, which is my only choice. My partner will have that cloud over his head for at least 3 years. That $10,600 policy is really the “I don’t want to insure you” price. And it won’t go away for at least 3 years with this carrier, even if it’s just me without my co-owner.

Clearly, I’m not very good at picking partners. I guess 25K+ hours of flight time isn’t what I should be looking for. Answer - I will never have a partner in an airplane again. I will be listing my beautiful, award winning, Garmin IFR equipped, powerful, modern airplane for sale, because I refuse to pay $10.6K for insurance when I should be paying 1200, and I won’t let the airplane sit for a year or so while I try to overcome this shadow that is following me around.

If you have a partner in your airplane you should know that if he has an accident, it will affect you, even if you divorce yourself from that relationship. If you have a friend listed on your policy as a named pilot, and he has a history maybe unrelated to his performance, it may affect you if he flys your plane and has an accident. Your carrier may not cover this circumstance. I have 3 RV friends that have me listed as a named pilot on their policy. I will be checking with their insurance carrier to make sure I am indeed covered. I may not be because of the mistakes that my partners have made.

I’m bummed!!

[Ironflight]

Ouch Scott - just ouch!!

Partnerships and insurance are something we have a little experince with - fortunately, we had no accidents, but essentially, it helped drive our partner out of the airplane. This was on our Dream Tundra, and the other partner was the one that started it. Ufortunately, he was low time, and by the time the airplane was finished (he worked on it ten years, we joined in the last year to get it finished), he was 70+, and essentially uninsurable. And while its easy to decide to go liability only if it is just you in the airplane, having a partnership really means either every partner keeps the value of the airplane handy in case they break it, or you have to have insurance.

So sorry to hear what has happened in your case - insurance and partnerships are FULL of pitfalls.

[rvdave]

Originally Posted by Ironflight

he was 70+, and essentially uninsurable

Does this mean it?s hard to get insurance after age 70?

[rvbuilder2002]

Originally Posted by rvdave

Does this mean it?s hard to get insurance after age 70?

This thread may give you some useful information.

http://www.vansairforce.com/communit...d.php?t=167559

[lr172]

Sorry to hear about this. Very frustrating just reading it; can only imagine how you feel. I appreciate you sharing it though. I had been thinking about finding a partner or two for my 6A instead of selling it once the 10 is done. This story has pretty much killed that thought and I appreciate the opportunity to learn from your misfortune.

Larry

[SMRacer]

I would think that the first thing that needs to be established here is if the situation of the OP is the exception or the rule. Are we indeed responsible for the sins of our aircraft partners?

Perhaps one of our Gallagher friends can respond.

[G-force]

Sounds like a partnership contract need to include the fact that any insurance increase due to plane damage is covered 100% by the one that did the damage, for the duration that it is held over the head of either partner.

[Capt]

Oh boy that hurt just reading it!
One couldn't dream that stuff up for a fictional novel unless I read it to be true!
Insurance has always been a grey area until you make a claim, then it's very colourful! I've heard of other ugly stories so am not too surprised sadly -

When I first started driving planes 40 years ago I was part of a 7 member syndicate in a C150 just to get the drivers certificate, I was the only one to complete my ticket to go on driving planes as a career, it was a very stressful time in a group of owners, I swore then I'd never do it again! I went without my own plane for many years due cost till I retired from heavy metal driving. Now I rarely let anyone a anywhere near my RV8 never lone drive it!
There is no greater feeling than opening the hangar doors full knowing that shiny looking plane in front of you is YOURS only!

[Tommy123]

The morale of this story is airline pilots are not very good at stick and rudder. No offense but it?s true. Managing a B-777 is not the same as hand flying a airplane.
I have a neighbor that drives the B-777 and he agrees with me.

[Capt]

Originally Posted by Tommy123

The morale of this story is airline pilots are not very good at stick and rudder. No offense but it?s true. Managing a B-777 is not the same as hand flying a airplane.
I have a neighbor that drives the B-777 and he agrees with me.

That couldn't be a more incorrect statement if I ever read one!
I've got thousands of hours on heavy metal and all sorts of high perf multi machines yet funnily enough I can drive my RV8!