Idea for VFR Panel

pilot28906 · #1 03-26-2019, 07:41 PM

This is my thoughts on a simple VFR panel for my 7. Any thoughts or comments?

1. GRT Sport EX with AOA. No map, SV, or ADSB software.
2. uAvionics Echo ADSB with their GPS.
3. Garmin 327 Transponder (I already have this).
4. MGL V16 comm.
5. Use iPad Mini w/ WingX or Foreflight to view ADSB in and moving map.
6. GRT EIS engine monitor.

Pilot135pd · #2 03-26-2019, 07:51 PM

Sounds good to me. I have a similar set up but have the extra steam gauge backups. If I had built it I wouldn't have installed those steam gauges and will probably end up removing them and placing them with the iPad installed in the panel with one of those gizmo mounts.

The only thing I would add would be an autopilot and I would install it as a stand alone and not use the EFIS brand autopilot. I currently have a Dynon EFIS and a Dynon autopilot (because I bought the plane that way) but I think I would have installed a TruTrak autopilot connected to the Dynon EFIS and to the Garmin GPS so in case I lose the EFIS I still have the autopilot steered by the GPS. Just a thought.

terrykohler · #3 03-27-2019, 04:48 PM

The basic Sport EX is $1500. For another $250, you can get moving map and ADS-B on the unit. Much superior visibility compared to an iPad, which you?ll likely want to mount somewhere, hard wire at some point, and will be a challenge to see if the sun is on it (VFR, right?). In addition, you?ll wind up paying for a subscription to ForeFlight or some other. GRT updates are free, you can split screen the EX to give you both PFD and map/traffic, and if you like, engine data as well.
Additionally, in terms of simplicity, you?ll need to learn to ?navigate? around one electronic system rather than two.
Simpler? YMMV.
Terry, CFI
RV9A N323TP

elev666 · #4 03-27-2019, 05:52 PM

I am also a fan of simplicity for a VFR panel , and for full disclosure, I too am building and RV 7 to eventually replace my RV6 so I?ve set a realistic budget of 15 K for my panel and auto pilot system ( these are fantastic cross country airplanes and you do not want to build one without an auto pilot if your a traveler ) because our aircraft are all works of art and we builders deserve at least
1) a reliable navigation system
2) a reliable communication & intercom system
3) & a system that gives us the latest situational awareness tools ( read traffic & WX )

I guess in a nutshell , I?m saying these Band New VFR airplanes are worth 80 to 100K when they fly, so let?s treat ourselves with as much technology as our spouses will allow us to afford!

pilot28906 · #5 03-27-2019, 07:24 PM

Thanks guys.
Terry, what do you think about the SV option? GRT has a SNF special where you can get Moving Map/ADSB/SV for $400. Is the SV worth having?

Thanks,
John

terrykohler · #6 03-28-2019, 02:41 AM

On SV, I might not be the best guy to ask as i?m ?Old school? and do much of my flying around flatlands/Midwest. I have it on my GRT EX and have it off most of the time, even thought i make regular trips to SC and New England. Living where you do, and as a more ?modern? pilot, i?d Say go for it. I think you and your passenger will find the topography display pretty amazing.

As far as autopilots, the old line of though was to mix equipment to lessen the chance of duplicate failure. All of these new electronics are pretty bullet proof compared to the stuff that was out there 20 or more years ago, so that?s pretty much a non issue. The GRT autopilot is very smooth, has both straight and level as well as 180 functions, and can be tied into just about any nav source. As far as simplicity, once installed, it?s menu is on the EFIS display, so it takes up no panel space. You can start with a two axis/single servo AP, and add altitude later- that takes just power and ground to the second servo. All of the data is via a single serial connection that wires into the same serial as the 2 axis.
Hope this helps. Your thoughtful approach to this project should result in a great airplane.
Terry, CFI
RV9A N323TP

BVD · #7 03-28-2019, 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pilot28906

This is my thoughts on a simple VFR panel for my 7. Any thoughts or comments?

1. GRT Sport EX with AOA. No map, SV, or ADSB software.
2. uAvionics Echo ADSB with their GPS.
3. Garmin 327 Transponder (I already have this).
4. MGL V16 comm.
5. Use iPad Mini w/ WingX or Foreflight to view ADSB in and moving map.
6. GRT EIS engine monitor.

I bought an -8A late last year that had a dated panel and wanted to update it to an affordable VFR panel with autopilot, much improved situational awareness, and use the existing panel...if I could. I used to build panels for folks and have used GRT and Dynon in previous builds love their stuff. However, for the money, in my opinion, Garmin was a better choice for me...but there is give and take with all vendors.

The original panel had a six pack with vacuum attitude and dg, a 250XL, SL40, GTX327, Navaid wing leveler, and GPSMAP 496.

I deploy for work so have a lot of time on my hands at work and after several design iterations I came up with this for my initial upgrade and removed all the vacuum items, the Navaid wing leveler, Rocky Mountain uEncoder, Garmin 250XL, and a couple other items...

I installed a Garmin G5, 2 axis autopilot with GMC 507 controller, and Aera 660...all for less than $6k. So far I love it.

The G5 is miles above what i had before, is super bright and easy to see and read, and has a backup battery. However, although it has a remote magnetometer, it doesn't have support for an OAT probe, so there is no TAS, or other related features. It also doesn't have support a moving map or EMS. The GRT mini has a leg up on Garmin in this area.

The Garmin autopilot is amazing and rock solid, as is the 507 controller, which was one of the big deciding factors for me. I fly bigger stuff for work and the interface is as good an anything I fly. Dynon also has physical autopilot controllers, but I think Garmin did a better job of implementing it.

The Aera 660, for a VFR GPS, is also amazing. I won't go into details as there is a lot of info on the net and this forum, but it does everything I need and more. However, if I want to display weather and traffic on the 660, I must use a Garmin ADS-B in product...so I'm stuck there. GRT, uAvionix, and others make good, and less expensive solutions, but I wouldn't be able to see the information on my 660 (I don't think...things change quickly). At the moment I am planning in the GDL 82 and 50R for ADS-B.

I manage our pilot iPads (mini 4's) running ForeFlight and they work great for us in the much bigger cockpit with a roof. In the -8, it's much more difficult to see, but I have managed to use some different color / display settings to improve it. I have read recently there is a new mini 5 coming out. Hopefully it has a brighter screen. For mounting it I used this low profile Ram mount (https://goo.gl/EsWbf1), attached to one of my instrument hole blanks, and a Ram X-Grip (https://goo.gl/TZQFBB). Works great as it sits very close to the panel and not in your lap.

I still want to replace the VM1000 engine monitor and install a larger EFIS, so the next upgrade will include the G3X Touch 10" with EMS and etc. I have several designs I have been working on, but this is the frontrunner at the moment. I'm headed back to work for 2 months in a few days so I'm sure this will change many times before I'm done...

Pilot135pd · #8 03-28-2019, 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by terrykohler

...As far as autopilots, the old line of though was to mix equipment to lessen the chance of duplicate failure. All of these new electronics are pretty bullet proof compared to the stuff that was out there 20 or more years ago, so that?s pretty much a non issue...

My reasoning is not that they?re not great but that one short circuit that takes out the EFIS now took out your autopilot too. Why not have independent systems if it?s not going to cost more or add any weight?

fl-mike · #9 03-28-2019, 11:47 AM

I have the 8.4 sport and would highly recommend you get the moving map. A good value.

BobTurner · #10 03-28-2019, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pilot135pd

My reasoning is not that they?re not great but that one short circuit that takes out the EFIS now took out your autopilot too. Why not have independent systems if it?s not going to cost more or add any weight?

I have an independent (but usually coupled to the GRT HX) Trio (great autopilot, imho) for exactly the reasons you state. But, I do fly IFR, so redundancy is important to me. For a VFR airplane, it?s not so important. And stand-alone autopilots tend to run about $1K more than those that are EFIS add ons (because they need all the attitude sensors that are already in the efis). So money and panel space considerations are not zero.